SGOTM 15 - One Short Straw

I will be climbing out of my hole when I get out of work tonight and begin testing an altered plan comparable to what has been tested earlier (- Stonehenge, +1 worker)

How many turns before we need to worry about having some kind of defense for zlatarog?

Good question. We're still at 22 cities worldwide, which equates to 2 cities per AI plus 1. At 30 cities barbs will attack, so that could be in 5-10t. We should monitor it every few turns. Gems City will add to the number too, of course.

If we put 1 chop into another Zlatorog worker, it's done in 10t. We two chops, it's done in 5t.

The worker being done right around the time we research Hunting would be convenient - otherwise it's very tempting to ignore the deer at Zlatorog.

If we move a warrior a couple of squares outside Zlatorog, then we can completely block the coast between the peaks and the sea, interfering with barbs' routefinding abilities.
 
I'm Obviously doing something wrong because I'm not in a position to chop oracle on turn 1440
 
I'm Obviously doing something wrong because I'm not in a position to chop oracle on turn 1440

Ok, what's the trouble?

Getting the marble improved in time?
Getting the Great Scientist on time?
Not enough worker turns to chop all the forests you need to on a tight schedule early on?
Can't build the road to connect Gold-E and chop the forests on time?

The pattern that LC has planned involves the two southern workers going to Delhi to:
  • Improve the copper
  • Put two turns (i.e. one each) of chopping into each to the forests at Delhi-SE and Delhi-2E
Then one worker chops Delhi-2E1N, while the other completes the two chops you've already started, and races off to Gem City. That means you get lots of hammers in a very short time; enough to finish the Settler and Library very quickly.

After that, you'll want to pull out another settler quickly, but also need to run scientists - you can pull in another forest chop before Gem City is founded, and use Slavery to finish it quickly.

I'll leave the details of the Gem city improvement and the Marble to your imagination for now.
Just remember - you can bump production of the warrior up to 6hpt if you want the worker in Gold-E to finish a turn early, if you need that one extra worker-turn over there.
 
Its getting the marble settler out fast enough to settle 1NE of crab

I need to chop the Oracle on turn 1440 right?
 
Its getting the marble settler out fast enough to settle 1NE of crab

Ok - I'll play a few turns forward in the test save, and upload it here, and let's see if you can get it from there - I'll leave a sign over a forest you can chop, and then when it's ready you can revolt to slavery and then instantly rush the settler.

At size 2, Delhi has a couple of things it can do:
Run 2 scientists and starve a little.
Run 1 scientist and the corn, and gain 4 food.
We can afford one turn of only one scientist

edit: yes, the chops go in on 1440.
 
Ok - I'll play a few turns forward in the test save, and upload it here, and let's see if you can get it from there - I'll leave a sign over a forest you can chop, and then when it's ready you can revolt to slavery and then instantly rush the settler.

Here you are.
If you decide not to chop both of the Zlatorog forests (and probably one should be omitted), then the worker has extra time to chop in Delhi.
 

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Here is my attempt. I'm sure there are better ways to manage. (Note pigs get basically ignored)

Spoiler :

TechPath Writing -> Wheel -> Priesthood -> Hunting -> Fishing -> Pottery -> Iron Working
(debating Pottery then Fishing for start on granery in Dehli before barracks)

Turn 48 2080BC

Gold Worker NW NW
Bronze Worker Mine
Zlatarog Worker Chop

Change Production in Zlatarog to worker
Zlatarog Works Gold only
GOLD-ELOCKS works Plains forest and gold this turn only
Tech Slider to Full
Delhi GrassHillMine x2 Floodplain COrn

Turn 49 2040BC
Deer worker W SW Mine
Zlatarog Worker Chop
Fort New warrior in Gold-E Locks. Produce worker. MM sheep Gold

Turn 50 2000BC
Zlatarog 1S worker S SE
1 Bronze worker N Chop Cancel Order
1 Bronze worker W NW

Turn 51 1960BC
Delhi 1SE Worker NE Chop
Delhi 1SW Worker Chop
Delhi 2NW worker 1 SW Chop

Turn 52 1920BC

Nothing

Turn 53 1880BC

All Workers Chop
Settler SW W
Delhi start on library
MM Delhi to work 2 Mines Bronze Corn
Library Should finish in 2 turns

Turn 54 1840BC

Delhi 1SW Worker W NW
Pigs 2E Worker S Chop Cancel order
Settler W NW
Delhi 2E Worker SW Chop

Turn 55 1800BC
Do All Worker Chops first!
2 Gem 1NEWorkers Chop
Settler Settles Pig Gem
Delhi finish Library 1 Scientist Corn FloodPlains Bronze Begin Settler
Delhi 1SE Worker Chop
Pig Gem Work Unimproved Gem Start on Library

Turn 56 1760BC

MM Delhi 2 Scientists work Corn Bronze
Delhi 1SE Worker S Road
2Bombay 1E Workers SW Mine Gem

Turn 57 1720 BC

Nothing

Turn 58 1680 BC

Slavery Whip 1 pop in Delhi to finish settler. MM Delhi to work 2 scientists and corn
Bronze Worker NE Road
Gold-E Locks Worker N Chop
Zlatarog worker 1NW Camp
2 Gems Workers E SE SE (Nix this) Both go E Road then road to pigs then road to forest NW of marble for quick trip back to pigs after Marble (also connects Pig gem to trade network earlier)
Zlatarog Start warrior
Gold-E Locks start Oracle

Turn 59 1640 BC

Tech Slider 0%
Settler S S
Delhi Start barracks

Turn 60 1600 BC

Tech Slider 100%
Settler S S
Deer 1W Worker SE Road
1N Gold-E Locks Worker W Chop

Turn 61 1560 BC

Settler SW Settle start Boat work Marble
Zlatarog MM Work Camp

Turn 62 1520 BC

Tech Slider 0%
2E Bronze Worker SE road
1NW Gold-E Locks worker Road
1NW Zlatarog worker S Chop

Turn 63 1480 BC

Nothing

Turn 64 1440 BC

Bulb Math Gold-E Locks Workers chop 2 forests to finish oracle
Zlatarog finish chop to finish spearman
Marble Workers NW NW towards pigs or Start chopping 2 nearby forests for Catas


Waiting for input before I begin

I need to rework worker turns at the end near Marble city. (marble finished a turn early so 2 worker turns wasted trying to get city settled faster
 

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The norm is to wait 24 hours or until you've gotten approval from all of the active players, whichever comes first. I'm away from my computer so I won't be able to comment in depth. You should be able to pasture the pigs. Look back at LC's plan after we found we had copper.
 
Excellent. Thank you for the detailed log. Now that you've got some idea of what absolutely has to happen, where, and when, we can start to think about when/where are there worker turns or hammers to play with.

Code:
tasks needed:
finish the copper mine 3t
chop Delhi-SE 3t
chop Delhi-2E 3t
chop Delhi-ENE 3t
chop GemCity-NE 3t
quarry the marble 6t
2 chops at Gold-E 6t
a long and winding road 10t

That's 37 worker turns. Some turns will also be lost due to movement, and there are constraints on when some of these worker-turns are committed.

Code:
workers available:
3 already built, t48-64
Gold-E worker, t58-64
Possible Zlatorog worker.

That's at least 58 worker turns. Of the 21 spare turns, a few will be spent on movement. Gems+Pigs between them cost 8 worker turns, and you can spend 2 or 5 chopping at Zlatorog.

The next stage you could go through is for each worker, to look at which turns each is already committed to something, and which turns it has time to do other stuff. Since the marble settler and workers are a turn early, I think some of the effort into getting those could be diverted to improving the pigs.

------
"Off topic" :p
When the Gold-E warrior is done, at some point it'll want to wander up on to the hill NNW of Osaka, where there is currently a Japanese Archer, to uncover a few tiles of fog. Other details like this we can cover when your full PPP comes to fruition - the workers are the hardest and most important part. :)
 
@magnusmarcus

If you follow LC's initial detailed plan with the chops and road building near Gold-E Locks, that's half the battle. He also laid out what his workers were going to do once we found out we had copper. I think all of the pieces are there but you have to look in a couple of posts...
 
That's at least 58 worker turns. Of the 21 spare turns, a few will be spent on movement. Gems+Pigs between them cost 8 worker turns, and you can spend 2 or 5 chopping at Zlatorog.

I can have the pigs developed at 1400 BC If I dont road extensively from Pig Gem and I dont get the second chop in at Zlatarog to finish a spear

( I could get it done significantly quicker if I dont camp the deer) I prefer to camp the deer as we get hunting right on the turn the worker is produced in zlatarog and it gets the population going up in Zlatarog in case we need an emergency whip. Note that contrary to the test I uploaded i would start to work the deer tile as soon as it is improved. (Missed the micromanagement in that test appartently)

Or Scenario number 2 is I can have a road all the way from the pigs to the trees NW of the marble which would have all our cities trade route connected and would make for an fast trip back to the pigs and a nice little road for the catas to be on.

When the Gold-E warrior is done, at some point it'll want to wander up on to the hill NNW of Osaka, where there is currently a Japanese Archer, to uncover a few tiles of fog. Other details like this we can cover when your full PPP comes to fruition - the workers are the hardest and most important part. :)

Certainly
 
Note that contrary to the test I uploaded i would start to work the deer tile as soon as it is improved. (Missed the micromanagement in that test appartently)
I imagine that the City Governor is enabled in Zlatorog. If that's the case, then on the turn that we are no longer building a Worker and start to build a build item that does not "eat up" Food (only Workers and Settlers "eat up" Food), then the City Governor will say "let's stop working the Gold, which makes us zero Food, and start working the Deer."

So, once that Worker is completed will be the point where you'll likely need to enter the City and switch which square is being worked back to the Gold. I say so because, while it may not be a change that you think would need to be made, since you didn't remove the citizen from working the Gold yourself, it could be a change that needs to be made due to Civ 4 removing the citizen from working the Gold.

If the City Governor is turned on in Zlatorog, then another option would be to have one of the first steps in your Pre-Play Plan be to disable the City Governor in that City, so that Civ 4 won't change the citizen assignment out from under you.
 
Its getting the marble settler out fast enough to settle 1NE of crab

I need to chop the Oracle on turn 1440 right?
It took me many, many, many tests to get the settler out fast enough. :)

Here was my original version, which you tried out:

Spoiler :
Oracle slingshot write-up, taken from the autolog. Warning, this is a handful. It's entirely possible it has errors as well, though I tried to document every action I took. I'm also concerned that is hard to read. Any suggestions would be helpful. Please let me konw if this is useful at all. I'm not sure it is. Note that I have included some comments where I wasn't sure what we ought to do, or where I hadn't optimized things.

Also note that I tried to use the names of units as they appear in the REAL SAVE.

There is:
Fast Worker
Fast Worker 1
Fast Worker 2
Warrior 1
Warrior 2
etc.

EDITED with Mitch's corrections.
EDITED with Magnus' corrections.
Spoiler :
Turn 39/500 (2440 BC) [22-Feb-2012 10:33:44]
LC's Comment: Begin logging
LC's Comment: Move Warrior2 (out west) 1S
LC's Comment: Move Delhi Settler2 S-SE
LC's Comment: Move Gold1W FastWorker SW-W (check for barbs)-NW to forest
LC's Comment: Move (Zlatorog) FastWorker1 S-SE-SE
LC's Comment: Warrior1 attacks lion
LC's Comment: Move research slider to 30%
LC's Comment: Delhi should be building Stonehenge working corn and flood plain
LC's Comment: Zlatorog should be building a worker, working the gold mine
LC's Comment: We are researching Bronze Working
LC's Comment: Save file.
LC's Comment: <Enter>

Turn 40/500 (2400 BC) [22-Feb-2012 10:43:32]
LC's Comment: Move Warrior2 1S
LC's Comment: Move FastWorker1 1SE-1SE to Deer-1S. This allows the worker safe passage to Gold-1S next turn, in case a barb appears north of the gold.
LC's Comment: Move FastWorker 1S to hill to scout for barbs. Check to see if Settler2 can move 1SE-1SE safely. If safe, move Settler2 1SE-1SE.
LC's Comment: Move FastWorker safely, either 1E or 1NE, as needed. He will join Settler 2 next turn.
LC's Comment: Move Warrior1 1E to hill
LC's Comment: Check to see if Toku will talk. (He shouldn't yet, but what the heck.)
LC's Comment: Move research slider to 0%.

Turn 41/500 (2360 BC) [22-Feb-2012 10:49:45]
LC's Comment: Toku should talk now. Agree to a Cease Fire with him.
LC's Comment: Move FastWorker1 1SE-1SE to Gold-1S.
LC's Comment: If Warrior1 has damage from attacking the lion, he can move 1NW where he will heal 20HP per turn inside our new city starting next turn.
LC's Comment: Move Settler2 1SE-1NE
LC's Comment: Move Warrior2 SW to forest at GemsTile1S
LC's Comment: Move FastWorker to where Settler2 is.
LC's Comment: Move research slider to 100%

Turn 42/500 (2320 BC) [22-Feb-2012 11:32:45]
LC's Comment: Move Settler2 NE and settle city
LC's Comment: Settle at GoldTile-1E, which is also Sheep-1SW
LC's Comment: This city builds a warrior while working max food (automatically)
LC's Comment: Move FastWorker1 to sheep and start pasturing
LC's Comment: Move FastWorker to sheep and start pasturing
LC's Comment: Warrior2 needs to heal if attacked. Other wise, he'ld like to move 1S to the forest, if possible.
LC's Comment: MM Delhi to work corn, flood plain, and grass forest (2f1h) for growth to pop4 in 3 turns

Turn 43/500 (2280 BC) [22-Feb-2012 11:39:00]
LC's Comment: If healed and safe, Warrior2 moves 1E to the hill at Bananas1N. That is his final destination for fogbusting.
LC's Comment: Sheep pasture should be finished and city should be working it automatically.

Turn 44/500 (2240 BC) [22-Feb-2012 11:40:58]
LC's Comment: When Warrior1 is fully healed he should start moving westward where he will fogbust. This will be dangerous but necessary.
LC's Comment: Move FastWorker1 1S-1SW and farm the grass river tile that is 1SE of the GoldTile.
LC's Comment: Move the screen back to the worker you just moved, select that worker and Cancel Last Mission.
LC's Comment: Sentry Warrior2 on the hill at Banana1N (or continue healing it or moving it there safely).
LC's Comment: Move FastWorker 1S-1SW to same grass river at GOldTile1SE and farm.
LC's Comment: Select that FastWorker and Cancel Last Mission.

Turn 45/500 (2200 BC) [22-Feb-2012 11:47:36]
LC's Comment: Move FastWorker1 to GoldTile and mine.
LC's Comment: Move screen back to FastWorker1 and select him and Cancel Last Mission. He will move NW next turn.
LC's Comment:
LC's Comment: Move FastWorker to GoldTile and mine. HE will finish the mine.
LC's Comment: Move Warrior2 (if healed) to the hill at GoldTile1W. Here is is exposed to only one tile with a possible barb.
LC's Comment: Delhi is pop4 now. MM for max food. That is, work corn, flood plain and two grass forests. This is crucial for later on.

Turn 46/500 (2160 BC) [22-Feb-2012 11:52:20]
LC's Comment: The Zlatorog worker is done. Zlatorog should build Stonehenge next, but can't because Delhi is still building it. The new worker, FastWorker2 should move 1SE to the hill (if there is no forest growth there) and mine it.
LC's Comment: Move the screen back to FastWorker2 and select him and Cancel Last Mission. HE will being chopping Stonehenge next turn after Bronze Working is done.
LC's Comment: If safe and healed, move Warrior2 1W to the hill (GoldTile-2W).
LC's Comment: Move FastWorker1 from teh GoldTile 1NW-1NW to the DeerTile.
LC's Comment: In Delhi, start building a settler. Unselect the Stonehenge build.
LC's Comment: MM Delhi for max production on the settler. That is, work the corn, flood plain, and the two mines.
LC's Comment: Now, in ZLatorog, you can start building Stonehenge. Keep working the gold mine.

Turn 47/500 (2120 BC) [22-Feb-2012 12:00:02]
LC's Comment: Bronze Working is now done, but do NOT revolt to Slavery, because it is a waste of 1 gold per turn.
LC's Comment: Keep moving Warrior2 west, if safe. His final destination is the hill at MarbleTile-1E. But safely, if possible.
LC's Comment: Move FastWorker1 from the DeerTile 1NW and chop.
LC's Comment: Move the screen back to FastWorker1, select him, and Cancel Last Mission.
LC's Comment: Move FastWorker2 to the forest at Zlatorog-1S and chop.
LC's Comment: Select Fastworker2 and Cancel Last Mission. He needs to chop Zlatorog-1W first, because he'll move south to gems later on.
LC's Comment: The GOld City is now pop2 and should be working the sheep and gold mine automatically.
LC's Comment: Move research slider to 0%
LC's Comment: Research Writing.

Turn 48/500 (2080 BC) [22-Feb-2012 12:06:35]
LC's Comment: Move FastWorker from the gold mine 1NW-1NW to the DeerTile.
LC's Comment: Move FasterWorker1 from the forest at Delhi-2E to the forest at Delhi-1SE and chop.
LC's Comment: Move Warrior2 to the hill at Marble-1E if you don't see a barb threatening. This is a dangerous move, but necessary.
LC's Comment: Move FastWorker2 from ZLatorog-1S to Zlatorog-1W and chop.
LC's Comment: I haven't optimized the research, but I've been moving the sliding to 100% here.

Turn 49/500 (2040 BC) [22-Feb-2012 12:10:57]
LC's Comment: Sentry Warrior2 on the hill at Marble-1E and pray if there is an attacker nearby.
LC's Comment: Move FastWorker from the DeerTile to 1NW and chop. It should automatically Cancel Last Mission, but it doesn't hurt to check. IT will move N next turn to chop that forest.
LC's Comment: FastWorker1 chops the forest at Delhi-1SE one more turn and should autoCancel. He'll move toe Delhi-1SW next turn.
LC's Comment: Crucial MM!!! The Gold City should work the Gold Mine and the plains forest 1f2h for this turn only. This should give enough overflow to complete the worker build in 8 turns instead of 9 turns. This is critical for finishing the Oracle on T64.

Turn 50/500 (2000 BC) [22-Feb-2012 12:15:54]
LC's Comment: The GOld City warrior is done. Build a fast worker and MM GOld City for max production, that is, work the sheep and the gold.
LC's Comment: In my test game the lion just killed Warrior2. This turns out to be a serious problem I suppose if that happens we should stop and think, but probably send the GOld City warrior westward.
LC's Comment: FastWorker2 finishes the chop at Zlatorog-1W.
LC's Comment: Move FastWorker at Deer-1NW to 1N and chop the forest. HE will chop this to the end.
LC's Comment: Move FastWorker1 from Delhi-1SE to Delhi-1SW forest.

Turn 51/500 (1960 BC) [22-Feb-2012 12:20:17]
LC's Comment: FastWorker1 at Delhi-1SW chops forest to the end.
LC's Comment: FastWorker2 moves to Zlatorog-1S and continues chopping.
LC's Comment: Again, I haven't optimized the research but here I move the slider to 70% to finish Writing in 2 turns.
LC's Comment: Right now we are carefully timing the completion of the Delhi settler and chops, and Writing so that max overflow goes into the library so it can complete in 2 turns.

Turn 52/500 (1920 BC) [22-Feb-2012 12:23:44]
LC's Comment: FastWorker can complete the chop at Delhi-1E-1NE because the settler and Writing will both finish next turn.
LC's Comment: FastWorker2 completes the ZLatorog chop to put Stonehenge 1 turn from completion.

Turn 53/500 (1880 BC) [22-Feb-2012 12:25:49]
LC's Comment: Writing is done, research The Wheel next.
LC's Comment: The Delhi Settler3 is done, build a library next.
LC's Comment: Stonehenge is done, build a warrior in Zlatorog next.
LC's Comment: Move FastWorker2 from Zlatorog-1S to 1S-1SE on the hill. Next turn he will start chopping the 1SW forest.
LC's Comment: CAREFUL!!! FastWorker1 at Delhi-1SW must finish his chop before moving the Gems CIty settler.
LC's Comment: Select FastWorker1 at Delhi-1SW and finish the chop.
LC's Comment: FastWorker moves 1S to the forest at Delhi-2E and finsihes that chop.
LC's Comment: Gems City Settler3 moves 1SW-1W toward the GemsTile-1N location.
LC's Comment: Move research slider to 100%. We will get 60g from Failed GOld on Stonehenge next turn for continued 100% research.
LC's Comment: CRUCIAL!!! MM Delhi for max growth, that is, work the corn, flood plain, and two grass forests.

Turn 54/500 (1840 BC) [22-Feb-2012 12:34:26]
LC's Comment: Move FastWorker from Delhi-2E to Delhi-1SE and finish chop. This will complelte the library this turn.
LC's Comment: Move FatWorker1 from Delhi-1SW to the forest at 1NW-1NW. TOgether with the Zlatorog FastWorker2 they will chop this forest BEFORE settling Gems City.
LC's Comment: Move FastWorker2 from Delhi-2NW to the forest at 1SW (where the other worker went) and chop.
LC's Comment: Move GemsCity Settler3 1W-1NW to teh forest tile which is 1N of the GemsTile and 1SE of the Pigs tile so both gems and pigs are in the inner fat cross.
LC's Comment: CRUCIAL!!! MM Delhi to work teh corn, flood plain, and two mines. This shold add 6f to the food bin so it will reach 22f.

Turn 55/500 (1800 BC) [22-Feb-2012 12:40:53]
LC's Comment: The Delhi library is done, build settler next.
LC's Comment: The Zlatorog warrior is done, we could build barracks or another warrior next.
LC's Comment: CRUCIAL!!! Complete the forest chop at Delhi-2W-1NW before settling Gems City.
LC's Comment: Move FastWorker from Delhi-1SE to the DeerTile. We're waiting for The Wheel and eventually we'll have to waste a turn moving to the deer tile anyway.
LC's Comment: After chopping the forest to the NE, settle GEms City at gems-1N and Pigs1SE.
LC's Comment: Gems CIty starts building a barracks.
LC's Comment: I guess.
LC's Comment: CRUCIAL: MM Delhi to work 2 scientists, along with the corn and flood plains.

Turn 56/500 (1760 BC) [22-Feb-2012 12:46:51]
LC's Comment: The Wheel is done, research Priesthood next.
LC's Comment: FastWorker on the DeerTile roads.
LC's Comment: Each FastWorker at GemsCity-1NE moves to the GemsTile and mines it.
LC's Comment: CRUCIAL!!! In Delhi, build a barracks for one turn only and MM for growth to pop5 while still working 1 scientist. That means work the corn, the flood plain, 1 grass forest and 1 scientist.

Turn 57/500 (1720 BC) [22-Feb-2012 12:50:25]
LC's Comment: The gems mine is done and Gems City shold automatically start working it.
LC's Comment: CRUCIAL: In Delhi, start building the settler again and MM for max hammers with 2 scientists. That means work the corn, the flood plains, one mine, and 2 scientists.
LC's Comment: The settler should have 32 hammers and should add 8 more this turn.

Turn 58/500 (1680 BC) [22-Feb-2012 12:53:20]
LC's Comment: Priesthood is done. I guess it's optimal to research Pottery next, though we would save about 15 beakers if we did Fishing next. This way Pottery comes 1t sooner, which means granaries might be done 1t sooner (heven't tested). I assume more food is better.
LC's Comment: But I'm not sure if it really ends up being more food or not.
LC's Comment: Gold City has finished building FastWorker3 and should start building the Oracle next.
LC's Comment: Move FastWorker3 (Gold CIty) to GOldCIty-1NW and road.
LC's Comment: Move FastWorker on DeerTile to DeerTile-1SE and road.
LC's Comment: Each worker on the gems mine should move 1E and road.
LC's Comment: This will enable them to move to the pigs hill for free next turn and begin pasturing the pigs. Later they'll be able to move next to the marble tile in 1 turn because of this road.
LC's Comment: The Delhi settler should have 40 hammers in its build now, so we can 2 poprush it. Revolt to Slavery and whip the settler.
LC's Comment: CRUCIAL!!! After whipping the settler, MM Delhi to work the corn and 2 scientists!!!

Turn 59/500 (1640 BC) [22-Feb-2012 13:01:24]
LC's Comment: The Delhi settler is done, build barracks next.
LC's Comment: Move the Delhi Settler 4 to the corn tile. This will give it two directions to move toward Marble-1SW so that sudden forest growth doesn't screw us up.
LC's Comment: Each worker at GemsCity-1SE moves to the PigsTile and begins pasturing it.
LC's Comment: I haven't optimized the research slider here. Finish Pottery no matter what.

Turn 60/500 (1600 BC) [22-Feb-2012 13:05:59]
LC's Comment: Pottery is done, research Fishing next
LC's Comment: Move FastWorker on DeerTile-1SE to DeerTile-1SW and road.
LC's Comment: Move FastWorker3 to GoldCity-1NW and chop, then Cancel Last Mission.
LC's Comment: Move Settler 4 to a hils next to Marble-1SW.
LC's Comment: The pigs pasture is done, but MM GemsCity to work the gems mine one more turn.
LC's Comment: Switch builds from barracks to granaries in Delhi, Zlatorog, and GemsCity. Gold CIty continues to build the Oracle, of course.
LC's Comment: Finish Fishing in 1t.

Turn 61/500 (1560 BC) [22-Feb-2012 13:12:28]
LC's Comment: Fishing is done, research Hunting next.
LC's Comment: Move both workers at the pigs tile 3SE to the forest at Marble-1NW.
LC's Comment: FastWorker3 on GoldCity-1NW chops again, then Cancel Last Mission.
LC's Comment: Research slider to 0%
LC's Comment: Move Settler4 to MarbleTile-1SW
LC's Comment: MM GemsCity to work the pigs to grow to pop2 in 2 turns.

Turn 62/500 (1520 BC) [22-Feb-2012 13:19:10]
LC's Comment: Settle MarbleCrabsCity between the marble an crabs. Start building a workboat wokring the marble tile.
LC's Comment: Both workers at MarbleTile-1NW move to the marble tile and start quarrying it.
LC's Comment: FastWorker3 moves from GoldCity-1NW to GoldCity-1N and chops, then Cancel Last Mission.
LC's Comment: FastWorker1 at Marble-2NE moves to Marble 1NE and roads.

Turn 63/500 (1480 BC) [22-Feb-2012 13:23:26]
LC's Comment: FastWorker3 on GoldCity-1N chops, then Cancel Last Mission.
LC's Comment: FastWorker1 on Marble-1NE roads.

Turn 64/500 (1440 BC) [22-Feb-2012 13:24:19]
LC's Comment: CRUCIAL!!! Great Scientist builbs mathematics before GOldCity workers chop!!! OTherwise they don't get the 50% Math hammer bonus.
LC's Comment: CRUCIAL!!! Make sure the two workers quarrying the marble finish the quarry before the GOldCity workers chop. Otherwise we don't get the 100% marble hammer bonus.
LC's Comment: FastWorker3 on GoldCity-1N chops.
LC's Comment: FastWorker1 on Marble-1NE moves to GoldCity-1NW and chops.
LC's Comment: CRUCIAL!!! MM GoldCIty to make sure the ORacle completes in 1 turn.
After we discovered the copper, I tried to find a way to mine the copper quickly and still get the library in 2t and the settler done in time for the T64-Oracle-1t. Here are the changes I had to make to the above to get it done. #10 below is a big change, but of course, all of the changes are necessary. :)

Spoiler :
Here's a quick summary of the changes I made to mine the copper first:

1. The two eastern workers immediately mine the copper, one finishing the gold mine first.
2. Both go 1N and chop/CANCEL LAST MISSION (Careful! When two chop the same tile, one will NOT automatically stop the chop on the last turn!!!)
3. Both go 1NE and chop/CANCEL LAST MISSION.
4. One goes 1N and chops to completion. The other completes the chop in place.
5. The free worker goes back to 1SW and completes that chop, then goes STRAIGHT to the piglets.
6. The other one goes straight to the deer tile when he's done chopping. He then connects Delhi and Gold-E Locks along with the new worker from Gold-E Locks, as per my original plan, and so forth, connecting the marble and pre-chopping Gold-E Locks before T64.

7. The Zlatorog worker completes the SH chops then goes to Gems City-1NE and completes that chop BEFORE we settle Gems City, so the 16 hammers go to Delhi (CRUCIAL!).
8. That worker then helps pasture the pigs, then both mine the gems, then both go straight to quarry the marble.

9. Delhi MM. Delhi works the copper mine asap, of course. When the settler is done, it builds the library in 2t at +7fpt.
10. When the library is done, Delhi builds the next settler for three straight turns working 2 sci and max hammers, then revolts to slavery and 2poprushes the settler, bringing Delhi down to pop2.
11. When the settler is done, Delhi works 1 sci for one turn while growing back to pop3. At pop3, Delhi hires both scientists again, so the GS will spawn on T64.

12. Otherwise, everything is basically the same. Gems City MM is slightly different. I worked the gems mine when it was done for a couple of turns, until the pigs could grow Gems to pop2 in 1 turn.
I tried again and again to find a way to grow Delhi to pop5 before building the settler, but there was always some minor FAIL. Finally, I realized that I could build the settler immediately after the library, at pop4, then 2pop the settler, and still grow back to pop3 in 1t while working only 1 sci for 1t. Pop3 allows us to continue working 2sci, as required.

After comparing the results, it was obvious that mining the copper first was slightly better.

.
 
Variant using only 1 pop rush in Delhi but extra +16h Chop

Thanks for pointing out I needed to pasture the pigs first. I believe that fixed the issue I was having with worker turns

Spoiler :
TechPath Writing -> Wheel -> Priesthood -> Hunting -> Fishing -> Pottery -> Iron Working
(debating Pottery then Fishing for start on granery in Dehli before barracks)

Turn 48 2080BC

Gold Worker NW NW
Bronze Worker Mine
Zlatarog Worker Chop

Change Production in Zlatarog to worker
Zlatarog Works Gold only
GOLD-ELOCKS works Plains forest and gold this turn only
Tech Slider to Full
Delhi GrassHillMine x2 Floodplain COrn

Turn 49 2040BC
Deer worker W SW Mine
Zlatarog Worker Chop
Fort New warrior in Gold-E Locks. Produce worker. MM sheep Gold

Turn 50 2000BC
Zlatarog 1S worker S SE
1 Bronze worker N Chop Cancel Order
1 Bronze worker W NW

Turn 51 1960BC
Delhi 1SE Worker NE Chop
Delhi 1SW Worker Chop
Delhi 2NW worker 1 SW Chop

Turn 52 1920BC

Nothing

Turn 53 1880BC

All Workers Chop
Settler SW W
Delhi start on library
MM Delhi to work 2 Mines Bronze Corn
Library Should finish in 2 turns

Turn 54 1840BC

Delhi 1SW Worker W NW
Pigs 2E Worker S Chop Cancel order
Settler W NW
Delhi 2E Worker SW Chop

Turn 55 1800BC
Do All Worker Chops first!
2 Gem 1NEWorkers Chop
Settler Settles Pig Gem
Delhi finish Library 1 Scientist Corn FloodPlains Bronze Begin Settler
Delhi 1SE Worker Chop
Pig Gem Work Unimproved Gem Start on Library

Turn 56 1760BC

MM Delhi 2 Scientists work Corn Bronze
Delhi 1SE Worker S Road
2Bombay 1E Workers Move to Pigs
Turn 57 1720 BC

2Pigs workers Pasture. When complete Mine Gems then Directly to Marble

Turn 58 1680 BC

Slavery Whip 1 pop in Delhi to finish settler. MM Delhi to work 2 scientists and corn
Bronze Worker NE Road
Gold-E Locks Worker N Chop
Zlatarog worker 1NW Camp
Zlatarog Start warrior
Gold-E Locks start Oracle
MM Bombay to work Pigs


Turn 59 1640 BC

Tech Slider 0%
Settler S S
Delhi Start barracks

Turn 60 1600 BC

Tech Slider 100%
Settler S S
Deer 1W Worker SE Road
1N Gold-E Locks Worker W Chop

Turn 61 1560 BC

Settler SW
Zlatarog MM Work Camp
Bombay MM Gems

Turn 62 1520 BC

Tech Slider 0%
2E Bronze Worker SE road
1NW Gold-E Locks worker Road
1NW Zlatarog worker S Chop
Settle 1NE Crab

Turn 63 1480 BC

Nothing

Turn 64 1440 BC

Bulb Math Gold-E Locks Workers chop 2 forests to finish oracle
 

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I played through most of your plan. There were a few things I'd change, so by the end it was hard to follow your plan. A couple of my changes which are up for discussion include:

1. We haven't proven it yet, but the thought is that Pottery -> Fishing is better than Fishing -> Pottery. Sure, we lose the 20% bonus, but getting granaries done 2 turns sooner = more food in all cities = good.

2. I don't think it matters too much, but LC's plan had us working the plains forest on T49, not T48. Your plan gets us our warrior out a turn sooner and the worker at the same time. When the worker is done, however, we have 3 less food in Gold-E Locks (I think).

3. If this new warrior has a chance to steal another worker from Toku (like what happened in my test game), should we consider it? If the chance arises, I think it best to at least pause and upload a screen shot...

4. On T49, you need to MM Delhi to work the completed Copper mine.

5. On T54, we have a chance to chop the forest under the Gems City site before we settle there. This gives us 8 hammers that we would otherwise have lost. It also saves the forest for a quick chop in Gems City for a quicker granary... The drawback is that per your worker MM, the settler can't be 1 pop whipped on the turn you did it because we get a 8H chop rather than a 16H chop. LC was two pop whipping and growing back to 3 pops right away... Maybe we could get these "free" hammers and do LC's 2-pop whip. By the way, another upside of chopping the forest under Gems City is that the workers don't have to waste a turn climbing the pigs hill; they can climb and pasture on the same turn which gets the pig pasture and the gems mine each one turn sooner. This gives two spare worker turns that were used to climb the pigs hill to do something else...

6. When moving the settler to the marble location, it's better to move S-SW to the corn tile. That way, if a forest just happens to grow in the area, the settler has two ways to go to get to the city location (marble-SW) on time.

7. That sucks that a warrior turns into a spear in the build queue once bronze is hooked up. We really don't need a spear... I wonder if your worker starts building his road from the deer toward the copper that the warrior will be done before the copper is hooked up.

8. Don't forget to switch to building granaries on the turn Pottery is learned in Delhi, Zlatorog and Gems City. For that matter, it may be good to put in your turn-by-turn plan on which turn you learn each tech. It makes it easier to make sure that I'm on track when playing your save through and it's also a reminder to you to make sure you're getting the techs on the turn you expect.

9. I like how you learn Hunting on the turn the worker is completed in Zlatorog. It does delay Pottery by 1 or 2 turns though... It's debatable which way to go. If we do slot in Hunting, you should put in your plan on which turn you move your citizen from the gold to the deer, which should be one turn BEFORE you have to do something with that worker again... unless we need those few extra beakers to finish a critical tech.
 
I didn't see the pictures before. I see that you still have the warrior sitting in Gold-E Locks. I think it better to post him on the hill to the E-NE to look for a chance to pick off a worker. This may not be possible due to Toku having a wandering attack archer. Be sure to keep track of him (EDIT: Toku's archer) while you play. EDIT: Actually, I think you can move him on the turn that your settler arrives at the city location since the settler will spawn bust the area too. There is one sqare at banana-NE that we have to make sure we cover until the city is actually settled though...

The turn you settle Marble, I'm pretty sure that it's okay to move the spawn buster fortified to the west. We need to figure out which way to move him but I assume toward Toku.
 
I played through most of your plan. There were a few things I'd change, so by the end it was hard to follow your plan. A couple of my changes which are up for discussion include:

1. We haven't proven it yet, but the thought is that Pottery -> Fishing is better than Fishing -> Pottery. Sure, we lose the 20% bonus, but getting granaries done 2 turns sooner = more food in all cities = good.

2. I don't think it matters too much, but LC's plan had us working the plains forest on T49, not T48. Your plan gets us our warrior out a turn sooner and the worker at the same time. When the worker is done, however, we have 3 less food in Gold-E Locks (I think).

3. If this new warrior has a chance to steal another worker from Toku (like what happened in my test game), should we consider it? If the chance arises, I think it best to at least pause and upload a screen shot...

4. On T49, you need to MM Delhi to work the completed Copper mine.

5. On T54, we have a chance to chop the forest under the Gems City site before we settle there. This gives us 8 hammers that we would otherwise have lost. It also saves the forest for a quick chop in Gems City for a quicker granary... The drawback is that per your worker MM, the settler can't be 1 pop whipped on the turn you did it because we get a 8H chop rather than a 16H chop. LC was two pop whipping and growing back to 3 pops right away... Maybe we could get these "free" hammers and do LC's 2-pop whip. By the way, another upside of chopping the forest under Gems City is that the workers don't have to waste a turn climbing the pigs hill; they can climb and pasture on the same turn which gets the pig pasture and the gems mine each one turn sooner. This gives two spare worker turns that were used to climb the pigs hill to do something else...

6. When moving the settler to the marble location, it's better to move S-SW to the corn tile. That way, if a forest just happens to grow in the area, the settler has two ways to go to get to the city location (marble-SW) on time.

7. That sucks that a warrior turns into a spear in the build queue once bronze is hooked up. We really don't need a spear... I wonder if your worker starts building his road from the deer toward the copper that the warrior will be done before the copper is hooked up.

8. Don't forget to switch to building granaries on the turn Pottery is learned in Delhi, Zlatorog and Gems City. For that matter, it may be good to put in your turn-by-turn plan on which turn you learn each tech. It makes it easier to make sure that I'm on track when playing your save through and it's also a reminder to you to make sure you're getting the techs on the turn you expect.

9. I like how you learn Hunting on the turn the worker is completed in Zlatorog. It does delay Pottery by 1 or 2 turns though... It's debatable which way to go. If we do slot in Hunting, you should put in your plan on which turn you move your citizen from the gold to the deer, which should be one turn BEFORE you have to do something with that worker again... unless we need those few extra beakers to finish a critical tech.

2. This way gains a few hammers for the food - I don't know which one is best.
3. Absolutely no. Toku has a wandering attack Archer. We won't be able to get peace and risk losing cities.
5. Worker turns are a crucial resource. 8h just isn't worth it, IMO.
7. It's Hunting that does it. I definitely would like to get the warrior built before Hunting.
 
2. This way gains a few hammers for the food - I don't know which one is best.

I guess someone would need to check the details, but you get those extra hammers either way, right? One just gets them a turn sooner/later.

3. Absolutely no. Toku has a wandering attack Archer. We won't be able to get peace and risk losing cities.

Agreed. I thought of this and posted it in my second post. You're too quick. ;)

5. Worker turns are a crucial resource. 8h just isn't worth it, IMO.

I think you're missing the point. We actually gain two worker turns, not lose two. The difference is that we chop the forest where we're going to settle the city. This give 8H, not 16H. On the next turn, with the 8H option, the workers climb and pasture on the same turn. On the 16H option, the wokers climb the hill and have to wait until the next turn to pasture.

So, the tradeoff is 16H vs. 8H (that would otherwise go wasted as we'd settle on top of this forest) + two woker turns -> pigs pasture 1T sooner + gems mine 1T sooner. This means Gems City grows a turn sooner and can start working the gems sooner...

7. It's Hunting that does it. I definitely would like to get the warrior built before Hunting.

Well, I guess it's both Hunting and connecting the copper. Delaying either would solve the problem, no? I'm just not sure if the warrior would be done before the copper is roaded if building the road from deer to copper rather than from copper to deer. I think it works because I was getting a warrior with LC's test. Or do warriors not upgrade to axes in the queue automatically once we have copper...

In any event, building the road from east to west may solve the issue and allow us to get Hunting sooner.. assuming we are willing to delay Pottery for a sooner-growing Zlatorog.
 
I consistently come up short on hammers trying to do LC's 2 pop settler rush.

I've been over the intructions several times...

What I'm missing I do not know.


Lc What pop is Delhi at using your 2 pop rush method on turn 64?
 
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