Will Hitler be seen in a more positive way in the far future?

christos200 said:

So, do you believe that in 100 or more years from now Hitler could be seen in a more positive way?

Click to expand...

BvBPL said:

The prominence of Jews in Western mass media and popular culture makes this a very unlikely prospect.

Click to expand...

Kaiserguard said:

If Hitler is ever to get a more positive reputation in the West, he will be treated first and foremost as an object of comedy. In some ways, he already gets that kind of treatment considering the zillions of Untergang parodies on the internet.

Click to expand...

christos200 said:

Note: This is just an example of Hitler meme. I, in no way, deny the holocaust.

Click to expand...

christos200 said:

Many conquerors who killed millions of people, like Caesar or Genghis Khan, are admired now and people see them as heroes.

Click to expand...

Plotinus said:

I doubt many people see Genghis Khan as a hero.

Click to expand...

christos200 said:

I am one of those who do.

Click to expand...

Kaiserguard said:

Mr. Hitler... uhm, Hilter!

What'd you think of Mr. Hilter's policies?

He's right, you know that?

Click to expand...

BvBPL said:

The prominence of Jews in Western mass media and popular culture makes this a very unlikely prospect.

Click to expand...

Kyriakos said:

Click to expand...

Traitorfish said:

In light of this exchange, I can't help but read the thread title as "Will my admiration for Adolf Hitler ever becomes socially acceptable?".

Click to expand...

christos200 said:

Just think Hitler having lightsaber and Darth Vader's suit and powers. Scary!

Click to expand...

Lord Baal said:

Give Mel Gibson a bottle of whiskey, a gatling gun and a geneological tree and we'll have Braveheart II in no time.

Click to expand...

Traitorfish said:

In light of this exchange, I can't help but read the thread title as "Will my admiration for Adolf Hitler ever becomes socially acceptable?".

Click to expand...

Many Muslims sought shelter in the Al-Aqsa Mosque, the Dome of the Rock, and the Temple Mount area generally. According to the Gesta Francorum, speaking only of the Temple Mount area, "...[our men] were killing and slaying even to the Temple of Solomon, where the slaughter was so great that our men waded in blood up to their ankles..." According to Raymond of Aguilers, also writing solely of the Temple Mount area, " in the Temple and porch of Solomon men rode in blood up to their knees and bridle reins." However, this imagery should not be taken literally; it was taken directly from biblical passage Revelation 14:20. Writing about the Temple Mount area alone Fulcher of Chartres, who was not an eyewitness to the Jerusalem siege because he had stayed with Baldwin in Edessa at the time, says: "In this temple 10,000 were killed. Indeed, if you had been there you would have seen our feet coloured to our ankles with the blood of the slain. But what more shall I relate? None of them were left alive; neither women nor children were spared".

The eyewitness Gesta Francorum states that some people were spared. Its anonymous author wrote, "When the pagans had been overcome, our men seized great numbers, both men and women, either killing them or keeping them captive, as they wished." Later the same source writes, "[Our leaders] also ordered all the Saracen dead to be cast outside because of the great stench, since the whole city was filled with their corpses; and so the living Saracens dragged the dead before the exits of the gates and arranged them in heaps, as if they were houses. No one ever saw or heard of such slaughter of pagan people, for funeral pyres were formed from them like pyramids, and no one knows their number except God alone. But Raymond caused the Emir and the others who were with him to be conducted to Ascalon, whole and unhurt."

Another eyewitness source, Raymond of Aguilers, reports that some Muslims survived. After recounting the slaughter on the Temple Mount he reports of some who "took refuge in the Tower of David, and, petitioning Count Raymond for protection, surrendered the Tower into his hands."

These Muslims left with the Fatimid governor for Ascalon. A version of this tradition is also known to the later Muslim historian Ibn al-Athir (10, 193–95), who recounts that after the city was taken and pillaged: "A band of Muslims barricaded themselves into the Oratory of David (Mihrab Dawud) and fought on for several days. They were granted their lives in return for surrendering. The Franks honoured their word, and the group left by night for Ascalon." One Cairo Geniza letter also refers to some Jewish residents who left with the Fatimid governor.

Tancred claimed the Temple quarter for himself and offered protection to some of the Muslims there, but he was unable to prevent their deaths at the hands of his fellow Crusaders.

Although the Crusaders killed many of the Muslim and Jewish residents, eyewitness accounts (Gesta Francorum, Raymond of Aguilers, and the Cairo Geniza documents) demonstrate that some Muslim and Jewish residents were allowed to live, as long as they left Jerusalem.

Click to expand...

Closely associated with the dietary revolution of the Mongol era was an exchange of medical ideas. This was part of a process by which virtually a single medical tradition was created throughout Eurasia. Prior to the Mongols, the most important medical tradition was so -called Arabic medicine. This was basically Greek and Syrian, but the basic texts were translated into Arabic starting in the 9th century. It was through the Arabic language t hat the medical classics of the tradition, by Galen, Hippocrates, Paul of Aegina and others, including some original Persian and Arabic writers, spread throughout the Islamic world (Ullmann, 1978 ; Pormann and SavageSmith, 2007). And they even went beyond, back into Europe where translat ions from the Arabic became the basis of medical education (Kristeller, 1982). This was before the European rediscovery of the most important Greek texts in their original language.

The Mongols had their own medicine, but began using the medicines of others as soon as expansion began. Mongol medicine emphasized a limited intake of herbs and the consumption of specific parts of animals to treat specific conditions. They also had methods for wound treatment and bone repair (Buell, Anderson and Perry 2000; Buell Silk Road forthcoming); but none of their practices was as sophisticated or as developed as the medicines of the world outside Mongolia, with their rich written traditions, well-thought -out theories, and thousands of herbs and many other forms of tr eatment. Thus Chinese medicine was used at imperial court at an early date, along with Tibetan, another rich and original tradition, practiced by missionaries and envoys from Tibet going to Mongolia (Buell Islam and Tibet forthcoming). And through the court these medicines spread throughout the Mongol world, including to Mongol Iran where at least one Chinese manual, on pulse lore, was translated for local consumption (Buell Asian Medicine, Tradition and Modernity forthcoming). Nonetheless, despite Mongol exposure to Chinese and Tibetan medicine, it was Arabic medicine that ultimately became the preferred medicine of the elite, including in Mongol China.

There the Mongols attempted to introduce it on a broad scale. They did so by promoting a vast translation effort to make available the medical lore and specific treatments of Arabic medicine in China. This effort included the compilation of a huge encyclopedia, more than 3500 dense manuscript pages, of which major fragments still survive, now called Huihui yaofang 回回藥方, “Muslim Medicinal Recipes.” This is the only text in the Chinese tradition to actually quote Galen and other Western authorities by name and was important enough for a new edition be made during the Ming 明 period. The present fragments derive from it. This text typically shows not a pure Arabic medicine but a carefully reworked Arabic medicine that uses many of the terms and categories of Chinese medicine (Buell Asian Medicine, Tradition and Modernity forthcoming; Buell Silk Road forthcoming). It also shows Tibetan influen ce, in the humoral system, for example. Tibet at the time had its own Western medical traditions as well as Indian and even Central Asian (Garrett 2007; Buell Islam and Tibet forthcoming). As result of Mongol patronage, the medical systems of much of Eurasia, as well as Europe, were at the same place. The same texts were studied from one end of the Old World to the other. The Mongols thereby promoted a cosmopolitan Eurasian tradition of medicine as they attempted to create a system in which all the major traditions of medicine in Eurasia were integrated.

The Mongols encouraged exchanges of ideas and synthesis in many other areas, to create new modified systems. One was astronomy. Islamic astronomers went to China, and Chinese to Iran and elsewhere (Dalen 2002; Allsen 2001). Geographical knowledge spread resulting in advanced Chinese awareness of the entire world, even Africa, and the best and most accurate maps in existence (Fuchs 1946). Part of the spread of better geographical knowledge was that people travelled more widely. Marco Polo is the most famous example, but during the same period the first East Asians travelled all the way to Europe (Rossabi 1992).

A typical production is a calendar now in a Russian collection. It begins it s dating system in 1206, the date of the formal establishment of Genghis Khan. It is written in Persian and in Chinese. The Persian is written using a Chinese brush and shows the influence of Chinese calligraphy. The paper also appears to be Chinese. The same sort of calendar was in use elsewhere and shows a concerted Mongol effort to create one universal era (Dalen 2002). Also typical of the times are coins with Chinese, Mongolian, and Persian inscriptions, informing us in these languages that all are “rea l” money, legal tender. They were issued as part of a uniquely Mongolian coinage system, another effort to unify and synthesize. The Mongols in Iran also attempted, unsuccessfully, to introduce Chinese -style paper money at the end of the thirteenth century; it was the first effort to print documents there (Kolbas, 2006). In the end, is it so surprising that Jerome of Prague, in a lost Italian wall painting, is shown reading a „Phags -pa text, written in the script that Khubilai had invented to write all of the world‟s languages (Mack 2002:52)?

Click to expand...

Antilogic said:

I think it is more likely his name will eventually fade from the forefront of the public consciousness like King Leopold II of the Belgians.

Click to expand...