The Deity Challenge #19 - Choose the civ

Which civ do you want for DCL #19 ???

  • Arabia

    Votes: 15 38.5%

  • England

    Votes: 11 28.2%

  • Aztecs

    Votes: 13 33.3%
  • Total voters
    39
z284pwr said:
Can Cargo Ships be built on Lakes? I don't believe they can, I don't remember. A 4-5 tile lake with Cargo Ship to the Capital = Huge population :lol:
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i dont think ive ever tried. i dont know if they qualify as lakes though but i have settled inland coasts completely surrounded by land and built cargo ships in those. it was like a crater sized lake.
 
I've seen barb galleys on those tiny lakes, so they must count as coasts for cargo ships. I think this means they won't count for FG, though.

I did try to roll a decent Aztec map on Lakes, but it was either meh or OP. Couldn't strike a balance and didn't want to revise the map at the microscopic level with IGE or anything.
 
Hammer Rabbi said:
i dont think ive ever tried. i dont know if they qualify as lakes though but i have settled inland coasts completely surrounded by land and built cargo ships in those. it was like a crater sized lake.
Click to expand...

I tried once on a small size lake, just 4 tiles long. It didnt work.
 
Hmm, the Aztecs now have a higher number. Maybe I counted my chickens too early. I'll leave this open until the end of the month, then we can see.
 
I remember lake tiles and coast tiles are mutually exclusive. the really big lakes (i.e. inland sea) allow for cargo ships and naval units, but the tiles don't provide the 4f yield with FG. On the other hand if you have a lake, you can benefit from FG but you can't run cargo ships and it won't have any sea resources.
 
I'm a little disappoint with my bad luck in the Babylon game. Here's to hoping we get some Aztec goodness to let more people try the Honor/Commerce strategy with the Culture farming the Aztecs can do.
 
consentient said:
I've seen barb galleys on those tiny lakes, so they must count as coasts for cargo ships. I think this means they won't count for FG, though.
Click to expand...

I could be totally wrong here, but the game differentiates between "inland seas" and "lakes". Inland Seas don't count for Floating Gardens, but do count for Cargo Ships. A single tile "Lake" obviously is great for FG, but of course useless for CS. A "Lake" that isn't too big can work for both (I think the number of hexes is small), but it is a very specific aberration that allows both.

And I really hope someone tells me what I just posted above is total BS and enlightens us all before the map is posted.
 
Shark Diver said:
I could be totally wrong here, but the game differentiates between "inland seas" and "lakes". Inland Seas don't count for Floating Gardens, but do count for Cargo Ships. A single tile "Lake" obviously is great for FG, but of course useless for CS. A "Lake" that isn't too big can work for both (I think the number of hexes is small), but it is a very specific aberration that allows both.

And I really hope someone tells me what I just posted above is total BS and enlightens us all before the map is posted.
Click to expand...

Inland seas do not count as freshwater sources, nor do they count as lakes for FG. They are coastal tiles and improved with lighthouse.
As for ships, sometimes you will have a coastal city which has a lake tile right next to the city center; in which case military ships CAN pass through and end their turns on any connected lake tiles; but you cannot, say, build a city on the other side of the lake and have cargo ships go to that other city; as that city is not considered coastal...
 
Shark Diver said:
The only reason I disagree is that I can get CKN's to a ranged promotion faster than I can get L-Bowmen to Logistics.
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Yes, but if you only consider promotion speed, you ignore the fact that longbowmen can just sit 3 tiles away and slaughter the city while the knights pillage and block anyone from harming them. You can get CKNs to range quickly, but their attacks are weaker.

I wouldn't say there is much in it, but I think Longbowmen are slightly better IMO. Plus they come from a civ with another devastating UU.

Personally, I'm a big fan of Tercios and Conquistadors. And Spain are a powerhouse domination civ with money throughout the game, especially at the start, and increased yields of good stuff (LV, GBR, faith NWs, etc).

Q: Does the Jaguar heal promotion stay all the way to muskets?
 
kb27787 said:
Meh lakes lose to floodplains or grassland rivers later on (with hydroplant); it's not the lakes (and the wheel is close enough to civil service for it not to make a drastic difference)

It's the +% food which is the killer. As long as you have a river, you're good.
Click to expand...
Agreed except for wheel being close to CS. If you go for Wheel fast, you could get the equivalent of riverside grassland farm sooner for more early growth.

Really it's mostly for the fluff that i wish for an Aztec map with some lakes. Their civilization grew near lakes and their floating gardens were on lakes, not on rivers. They should have a lake bias :crazyeye:

Re: Lakes map script :
Most of the time i prefer wrapping maps over flat maps so i never played on the lakes map (i think it's a flat map). I think ships of any type need 10 plots of water to be produced, at which point it counts as a see an not a lake, so i don't think cargo ships over lakes is possible. Maybe galleys can appear on any water plot adjacent to a camp, or maybe you got a big lake that was actually considered an inland see by the game.

consentient said:
Q: Does the Jaguar heal promotion stay all the way to muskets?
Click to expand...
Yes, and if you get a ruin, you can have lancers and later an helicopter with the Jaguar promotion. Can be fun :lol:
 
Bob Morane said:
Yes, and if you get a ruin, you can have lancers and later an helicopter with the Jaguar promotion. Can be fun :lol:
Click to expand...

I think I would rather not have the ruin and keep it under the melee upgrade line. The melee line upgrades much more frequently once you hit Plastics, Infantry and beyond will be more powerful than the 60 combat of the Helicopter gunship. Plus Plastics are on the science line so they are generally available much sooner than Computers.
 
Agreed. The spearman path sucks. Anti-tank guns are the very definition of 'meh'
 
Close race.... now I just need to use my friends accounts and come in here and tip the scales. Although it wouldn't matter since we are going to be able to play both eventually.

One new strategy I was just reading about that I haven't thought of before was to get to Ideology first on Deity and build the SoL and after that change to Order and build the Kremlin. I guess you could do it with Autocracy as well, I like that actually better to get Prora.
 
I don't think the Kremlin is worth the loss in policies just to build it. Statue of Liberty and Prora are but isn't it just easier to build Prora and capture SoL :D
 
z284pwr said:
I don't think the Kremlin is worth the loss in policies just to build it. Statue of Liberty and Prora are but isn't it just easier to build Prora and capture SoL :D
Click to expand...

When you change ideologies, you will get all your chosen tenets back so you can reassign them, except the two or one bonus ones if you were first/second to the ideology. So at worst you'd be breaking even, considering each of these wonders gives you a free social policy.
 
kb27787 said:
Inland seas do not count as freshwater sources, nor do they count as lakes for FG. They are coastal tiles and improved with lighthouse.
As for ships, sometimes you will have a coastal city which has a lake tile right next to the city center; in which case military ships CAN pass through and end their turns on any connected lake tiles; but you cannot, say, build a city on the other side of the lake and have cargo ships go to that other city; as that city is not considered coastal...
Click to expand...

I started a test Aztecs games and there is definitely no cargo ships on smaller lakes. They do show up in the Trade Routes available screen however. I had a city on a 5 hex lake and a neighbor had a city on the other side of the lake. I couldn't build a cargo ship but it showed a trade route available between that city and the one on the other side of the lake. I fired up IGE and built a city on the coast and bought a cargo ship but was unable to rebase it to that city so yeah, definitely no cargo ships on lakes.
 
It does show on the trade overview because you can send a caravan around the lake.

On the Jaguar upgrade. Actually i don't mind having one or two Jaguars upgrade with ruins. Spearmen and Pikemen are good units in their age and don't require any strategic ressource (iron can be really limiting in some games). A Lancer that heals after killing an enemy unit and moves fast through forests will be a nightmare to enemy cavalry. Of course the Anti Tank unit is just plain useless. The healing helicopter if you get to it is fun, not great but fun. Allows you to catch and kill retreating units at worst. Most Jaguars will still upgrade to melee anyway.
 
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