impi's range attack

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Valynor

Chieftain
Joined
Nov 29, 2008
Messages
62
Hello, I noticed that when one of my units gets attacked by multiple Impis, they all get their range attack before one of them goes melee, obviously giving them an advantage.
Is it possible to do the same playing Shaka or is it an AI's only perk?
 
The AI did that in my last game too, I haven't seen an option to do it as Shaka so it's probably just AI cheating
 
This reminds me of AI using laser focus on buildings with missile defenders & black lotus converting buildings while running in C&C Generals.
 
DreadMuffin said:
Isn't that the intended way?

I use quick combat, so I can't say I've ever seen them perform their attacks, but the "combat" is purely cosmetic, the fight is decided the moment the attack order is given.
Click to expand...

If 2 AI impis attack the attack order is impi 1 uses range ==> impi 2 uses range ==> impi 1 uses melee ==> impi 2 uses melee, as opposed to what humans can do which would be straightforward impi 1 uses range then melee ==> impi 2 uses range then melee. I don't think it's purely cosmetic in this case since the damage the AI takes seems to be less

It's only a small bonus but it's still annoying that the AI gets it
 
I haven't noticed this. What I see here is: Some people say it's just the combat animation where all ranged animations are played first for the AI, while actually they still do normal combat no different from humans so they do not have an advantage.
Can't confirm though as I never use Combat Animations. Bear in mind anyway that the apparently ranged attacking ones that do not take damage probably just didn't attack at all as the one impi who actually attacked and took dmg most likely crushed your unit - the ranged attack (of 1 damn impi) is just so strong that an impi basically has twice the CS of your unit on the offense).
 
Hm... I'll try test it on 3 impis to see if there's 3 ranged attacks and only 1 melee to kill the unit, it just seems that the AI gets an infinite amount of cheats (like 1 UPT) that I just assumed this was another one
 
What I have noticed is the AI frequently interrupts its melee attack to check if any ranged unit can hit the intended victim. So an AI landship approaches your GW infantry, but stops 1 tile in front of you, then some artillery and GW bombers hit your unit, and then the landship executes its attack.

This happens in all era's and is actually relatively smart play from the AI's part. It isn't something the human couldn't do. Perhaps something similar happens with the impi's, although I'm not too familiar with that unit (haven't played as Zulus yet).
 
offworld said:
This happens in all era's and is actually relatively smart play from the AI's part. It isn't something the human couldn't do. Perhaps something similar happens with the impi's, although I'm not too familiar with that unit (haven't played as Zulus yet).
Click to expand...

The whole point of it being an AI cheat in this case is that the human player CAN'T do that, because the Impi does not have two attack commands, like the Chu-Ko-Nu. You just click attack and he does the two attacks (ranged and then melee) in a single act. Unless this is some hidden trait that happens only when there are 3+ Impi flanking the same unit, which is why someone should test it.
 
Do you "stack" your attacks? Or do you wait until each unit finishes before you issue the next command?

I wonder if you stack your attacks with Impis will it be Ranged, Melee, Ranged, Melee, Ranged, Melee or Ranged, Melee, Ranged, Ranged, Melee, Melee.
 
Solution: Play Japan, your units will always defend with full strength no matter how many impis' ranged attacks hit them first. :p
 
the Impi ranged attack is like half the damage of their normal (ensuing) melee attack. You don't get to attack twice, both attacks are executed in the same move. What I want to know is how does the Blitz promotion work for them
 
stormtrooper412 said:
the Impi ranged attack is like half the damage of their normal (ensuing) melee attack. You don't get to attack twice, both attacks are executed in the same move. What I want to know is how does the Blitz promotion work for them
Click to expand...

The ranged attack is much less than half the melee attack. You do attack twice, since the ranged attack is free, but it is just one player action. Blitz would allow the usual range+melee then withdraw, or a second range+melee. I don’t think I have gotten blitz before upgrading to riflemen though. I love those unique promotions, but it make blitz like level 9 or something!
 
This is actually a side effect of something that is otherwise detrimental to the AI:
The AI uses "queued attacks" instead of attacking with units regularly. This means that instead of attacking a target one-by-one like a human player would, the AI queues up all the units it wants to attack with, has them execute their attacks all at once, then move onto the next target. This happens via a bit of code at the very end of the functions that execute attacks to move onto the next unit in the attack queue if the target is still alive.
The big downside of this approach is that the AI has no way to react to high or low rolls: if it ends up being 1 damage short of destroying a target, tough luck, it won't call in one more unit to finish the target off.

The way that Impis' attacks work is that when they execute their melee attack move, a ranged attack move is called before the rest of the melee attack move is executed. The ranged attack move, being a ranged attack, jumps to the next unit in the attack queue when it is finished, but the melee attack move for the original Impi is still running under all of this. If the next unit is an Impi, they pull the same thing, too (melee attack calls ranged attack, then the AI jumps to the next unit while the Impi's melee attack is still waiting to be processed). Then, once there are no more queued units to jump to and the target is still alive, all of the Impis' melee attacks are processed in reverse order. BTW, this also means that if the Zulu AI attacks a target with an Impi and a Knight, the Knight will attack after the Impi ranged attack but before the Impi melee attack.
 
stormtrooper412 said:
the Impi ranged attack is like half the damage of their normal (ensuing) melee attack. You don't get to attack twice, both attacks are executed in the same move. What I want to know is how does the Blitz promotion work for them
Click to expand...

Doesn't each attack count as a movement point so it can move once and attack but if it moves twice it can't attack? Wouldn't this mean it can't "attack" twice since it doesn't have enough movement points?
 
z284pwr said:
Doesn't each attack count as a movement point so it can move once and attack but if it moves twice it can't attack? Wouldn't this mean it can't "attack" twice since it doesn't have enough movement points?
Click to expand...

Only the attack command triggers the "has made attack" command and the movement point-decreasing command. Technically, the Impi is only attacking once, but it's using a "ranged support" ability to fire off a "first strike" of sorts (these were very prominent in civ games before Civ5, it was essentially a free round of attacking the opponent without them attacking back).
Here's a neat bit of trivia about "ranged support": based on the code I found in the game's DLL, Ranged Support attacks were meant to be a mainstream thing for artillery units, ie. a nearby artillery unit would fire on your attack target before you slammed your melee unit into it.
 
Delnar_Ersike said:
This is actually a side effect of something that is otherwise detrimental to the AI:
The AI uses "queued attacks" instead of attacking with units regularly. This means that instead of attacking a target one-by-one like a human player would, the AI queues up all the units it wants to attack with, has them execute their attacks all at once, then move onto the next target. This happens via a bit of code at the very end of the functions that execute attacks to move onto the next unit in the attack queue if the target is still alive.
The big downside of this approach is that the AI has no way to react to high or low rolls: if it ends up being 1 damage short of destroying a target, tough luck, it won't call in one more unit to finish the target off.

The way that Impis' attacks work is that when they execute their melee attack move, a ranged attack move is called before the rest of the melee attack move is executed. The ranged attack move, being a ranged attack, jumps to the next unit in the attack queue when it is finished, but the melee attack move for the original Impi is still running under all of this. If the next unit is an Impi, they pull the same thing, too (melee attack calls ranged attack, then the AI jumps to the next unit while the Impi's melee attack is still waiting to be processed). Then, once there are no more queued units to jump to and the target is still alive, all of the Impis' melee attacks are processed in reverse order. BTW, this also means that if the Zulu AI attacks a target with an Impi and a Knight, the Knight will attack after the Impi ranged attack but before the Impi melee attack.
Click to expand...

Impressive! So that means properly used AI Impis can take out pretty much anything with the First Strike and practically receive no damage from the melee attack. That is obvious cheating though :lol:
 
stormtrooper412 said:
Impressive! So that means properly used AI Impis can take out pretty much anything with the First Strike and practically receive no damage from the melee attack. That is obvious cheating though :lol:
Click to expand...
Well, it could also mean that the AI could end up wasting melee attacks or otherwise not achieve quite what was intended, so it would sort of balance out.
 
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