Six ideas that need to be considered.

[RidetheSpiral23]

Let me start off by saying that you could have easily posted this in the sticky thread about C2C ideas/discussions. Also if you haven't played the game since v22 why wouldn't you just play the new version and see how it has changed? Besides that let me go over some of your thoughts in case anyone cares

1. Trade Routes

First off don't really see a problem with the current system but trade isn't really one of the things I personally really care about. That being said, it would be interesting to have different sized ports that could accept so many resources. Low level ports/trading posts could only handle receiving say 3 resources from another city at a time (but would still have access to all the resources within it's city radius). Pretty cool idea but probably too much micro-management for comfort.

2. Cultural Government System
I love the total war series and would love to see more aspects of that series in any civ game/mod! This however doesn't make any sense to do the way it is done in EB for Rome. Thunderbrd has discussed making a more realisitic "dynamic cultural diffusion" system of sorts which would, in effect, simulate this kind of effect. I personally would like to see more UU's and UB's for each culture first. Almost to the point where culture's get there own unique versions of almost every unit. But that's just me.

3. Resource Amounts
This issue has been discussed and the mod team has to prioritize things. Your production boost is interesting. I would personally prefer to see a system where you can only use the resource for so many units/buildings before you cannot build anymore. Obviously it would be necessary at that point to scale them by map size out of pure necessity.

4. Overhaul Espionage
I don't use espionage myself but from what I do know about it the current system isn't the best. I would put it way down the list of things to develop though.

5. AI Improvements
Of course as you add more stuff to a mod the AI needs to use it appropriately, Koshling does an awesome job with that stuff and I was really impressed with the newest update myself! AI development is always an ongoing thing. IT would be easier for Koshling if you would just play the game and give feedback

6. Embarking Units
I hate this idea!!!! What would be the point of boats/ships. I would be upset if they changed units to be able to embark. It would ruin everything!!!! Okay rant over.

Other:
I don't mind hex tiles but i don't care really.
I liked 1UPT personally, a lot.
I care more about getting nomad start, multi-maps at this point in time. I also do like the navigable rivers thing though. On a side note, how difficult is it to create new terrains?

[Thunderbrd]

Ok, so from what I understand of Embarking units, I'd feel its a wretched concept but it would've been necessary for civ5 since you can't have more than one unit on a tile. I cannot express how stupid that all sounds to me. Since when is Civ supposed to be played like a hex-chess?

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Originally Posted by RidetheSpiral23

On a side note, how difficult is it to create new terrains?

If everything goes well I can liberate one from another mod in less than an hour. (That includes some testing.) Then someone needs to merge it into the maps... I have no idea how long it takes to build one from scratch.

[RidetheSpiral23]

Originally Posted by Dancing Hoskuld

If everything goes well I can liberate one from another mod in less than an hour. (That includes some testing.) Then someone needs to merge it into the maps... I have no idea how long it takes to build one from scratch.

Thanks for the seeing my side note there
I was thinking about the navigable rivers mod that was linked. I personally would rather see a whole tile as a river. Basically the water would make up most of it but then have a small amount of bank on the side to meld it into the adjacent terrain. To me the pictures off a trireme sitting on a tiny river made we want to punch someone haha. I was going to experiment with it but I personally have no idea how to make new terrain.

[BlueGenie]

The 1upt might work in CiV where the units are made for that purpose, with archers and melee units working differently. In CivIV where units are made to counterbalance each other, have strengths against each other and so on and forth a 1upt system would not work. You need to have a diverse configuration of units on a tile to be able to defend against different kinds of units you come up against. Having only one means very vulnerable units throughout the entire game and unable to actually defend any specific points on the map and will shift the game towards pre-emptive strikes and attacking to keep enemies away from your vulnerable places.
It will also mean that technologically more advanced civilizations will have even more of an advantage in wars.

Cheers

[Cyrusfan]

I like the idea of Embarking, though it doesn't look like it's getting any traction. I would suggest as a compromise a system where a civ builds transport units that instead of being placed on the map, tick up a national transport reserve counter, which is modified whenever a ground unit moves to a water tile from a port or back again.

A similar system might be used for nukes, since they tend to be placed not in cities, but out of the way so as to diminish the chance they are wiped out in a first strike.

While I'm out of the box, I'd also do away with workers and handle tile improvement from the city screen, but then, I'm not the one coding this stuff.

[Thunderbrd]

Originally Posted by Cyrusfan

I like the idea of Embarking, though it doesn't look like it's getting any traction. I would suggest as a compromise a system where a civ builds transport units that instead of being placed on the map, tick up a national transport reserve counter, which is modified whenever a ground unit moves to a water tile from a port or back again.

A similar system might be used for nukes, since they tend to be placed not in cities, but out of the way so as to diminish the chance they are wiped out in a first strike.

While I'm out of the box, I'd also do away with workers and handle tile improvement from the city screen, but then, I'm not the one coding this stuff.

I don't mind the free expression of your opinions of course but I can't say I like any of those ideas at all.

You realize that nukes can be moved to forts right? I do see a point, though, in perhaps making an invisible silo improvement that can stash away nukes invisible to other players...

I guess I just really like micromanagement and balk at ideas that simplify and (imo) dumb down the game for players... I suppose all those ideas could make for good game options if someone decided to work them out.

As for the Embark option though... can you even begin to comprehend the amount of AI work that would be necessary to adapt? It'd be mind boggling.

The more I learn about it the more I don't ever care to play civ5. D&D 4th edition had the same effect on me though so I guess I'm just getting older and becoming set in my ways on certain things.

[Rasma]

I like that idea for the nuke silos, you could add it into esp too, like add missions to find/disable them.

[Cyrusfan]

np, Thunderbrd. I'm brainstorming more than lobbying here.

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Originally Posted by Cyrusfan

While I'm out of the box, I'd also do away with workers and handle tile improvement from the city screen, but then, I'm not the one coding this stuff.

Something like this has been suggested for roads as well. It is an interesting idea but workers are simpler to code and more flexible sort of.

[JosEPh_II]

Originally Posted by Dancing Hoskuld

<snip>

BTW has anyone else notice that sometimes the troops in a transport that is sunk make it to land?

I don't remember the version but this was added sometime ago. (I think Eldrinfall had a hand in it?) But only if the transport was next to a Coast tile.

As for the Embark suggestion, imho I think it would destroy Naval operations. And really downgrade the usage of water maps (archipelago, Islands, Custom continents, etc). Therefore take away from the gameplay.

JosEPh

[Zain]

Originally Posted by Thunderbrd

I guess I just really like micromanagement and balk at ideas that simplify and (imo) dumb down the game for players..

Easing micromanagement of boring and/or hardly meaningful but must-do stuff is not "dumbing down the game." I refer to my earlier example of maintaining and island empire. It feels like a complete waste of time to build yet another transport ship just to get your worker over, or send another recon unit to deal with a randomly spawned wild animal. Better yet, you start on a small island and are stuck there until X point in time when you can build a transport ship to move your scout over the single tile of water between.

While I'm usually very much pro-realism, I realize that a game does not, cannot, represent real life. Thus simple, but time consuming and outright boring tasks should be automated in a video game. Micromanagement has its place and it enchances the feeling of being in control, adding depth to the game. But going past a certain degree, it just becomes a nuisance.

Just my personal feelings having enjoyed both games.

PS.
Thunderbrd, you should really give Civ5 a try, it's a fine game esp with the expansion. I'm with you regarding D&D 4th edition though

[Mouthwash]

Originally Posted by Zain

Easing micromanagement of boring and/or hardly meaningful but must-do stuff is not "dumbing down the game." I refer to my earlier example of maintaining and island empire. It feels like a complete waste of time to build yet another transport ship just to get your worker over, or send another recon unit to deal with a randomly spawned wild animal. Better yet, you start on a small island and are stuck there until X point in time when you can build a transport ship to move your scout over the single tile of water between.

While I'm usually very much pro-realism, I realize that a game does not, cannot, represent real life. Thus simple, but time consuming and outright boring tasks should be automated in a video game. Micromanagement has its place and it enchances the feeling of being in control, adding depth to the game. But going past a certain degree, it just becomes a nuisance.

Just my personal feelings having enjoyed both games.

PS.
Thunderbrd, you should really give Civ5 a try, it's a fine game esp with the expansion. I'm with you regarding D&D 4th edition though

There are people here who like it? I tried the demo and it's basically vanilla with religion and actual diplomacy added.

[Koshling]

Originally Posted by Mouthwash

There are people here who like it? I tried the demo and it's basically vanilla with religion and actual diplomacy added.

Civ V has nice aspects, but the killer for me (and I can't put my finger on the reason) was that it just lacks the 'play one more turn' urge that all previous versions had. The graphics are pretty, and I love hexes, but that's about it as far as I am concerned.

[rightfuture]

The main 2 ideas I don't like about Civ V (other than being too simplistic), is that 1UPT and Embarking don't work well and break the sense of realism.

The only way I see for limited units on tiles, is if units can pass through each other, up to a certain density of units. The more units are present, the more they should slow each other up. Maybe only the enemy should be able to stop a unit from going through a tile (other than terrain), and maybe they can't even stop them. A fleet of tanks should be able to speed through an enemy infantry unit without killing all of them. A unit charge could rout another unit out of the way.

It is unrealistic to move all units, simultaneously and separately. It destroys the idea of carriers and transports, and empowers every unit to travel on the water. Like most transportation, there should be a transition cost, either of movement, time, or consumption of resources (supply chain costs?).

Simplifying Civilization, makes it faster and more appealing to play if you only have a limited amount of time. One of the Great things about Civilization IV and even more about Cavemen2Cosmos is your ability to invest yourself as much or as little as you want.
Civ V turns it into an arcade or console experience where you never become immersed or live with your civilization enough to care. Options are just too limited.
The devil is in the details, and it all about being to easily control more of what you want.
But even more importantly gameplay in C2C is imaginative, realistic, and fun. And is not limited by any of these things.
It is The great C2C ModTeam who keeps it pointed in the right direction, so more and more is being made possible, and limits are exceeded. Even to the point of C2C evolving into something much greater.

I cannot see there being enough money, time, or effort ever to be invested in either Civ V, or even Civ 6 to be able to compare to the vision, gameplay, and new features of C2C.

C2C only suffers from imbalance with respect to new features (that will keep getting reworked and improved), and for the modders to have the time to be able to get around to fixing somethings. It only think it lacks graphics (unimportant to me), and multi-core processing to blatantly eclipse Civ V. Like in the orginal intention of AND (that changed and ultimate created C2C), things that some people don't like or in a minority to see, can be built in or programmed to be turned off as options. With that philosophy C2C is always open to integrate the best of what is out there.
It only needs enough people and invested time, to fix all those things, and be free to become everything we would want it to be.
It is already closer than anything else.

I say invest your ideas and time here with C2C.
It is the most likely to become even more of Civilization's Future.
Your discussions on what the next Civ should be, should be conducted here,
since they will more likely be picked up and developed as people can get to them,
before they could ever end up in a new game,
that has to have a game engine, graphics, and basic gameplay built from scratch, first.
Welcome to the Future of CIV, right here! Be a part of it now.