Fall Further 051 Bug Report Thread

rocklikeafool said:

Read the tech very carefully. For example, you may notice on exploration there is a line that says, "Build roads 75% faster". Other techs such as mining, etc. have the same type of thing for a subsequent improvement.

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I am aware that we got the feature back that allows to build stuff w/o the techs at a much slower speed.

...it's just that even after researching the right techs they still need XX turns ...

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So I got the corresponding techs which should allow normal building times.
But my workers are building improvements at improved/normal building speed just on non-forrested terrain, not in forests/Ancient forests.

E.g.:
Building times for a Workshop for a freshly built worker (80% workrate)
Non-forest-Tile 8 turns
Forest tile 19 turns
Ancient Forest tile 22 turns

Cottage:
Non-forst tile: 5 turns
Forest tile 14 turns
AF: 33 turns

It has always been like that. The reason is that the game adds the cost of removing the forest to the cost of improving the tile, even though it is never actually removed.

Imho, the elven racial should probably give +50% work rate in forests and +100% work rate in ancient forests. Otherwise, they end up needing three times as many workers as anyone else, except for maybe the mazatl and cuali.

stupidnewbie said:

It has always been like that. The reason is that the game adds the cost of removing the forest to the cost of improving the tile, even though it is never actually removed.

Imho, the elven racial should probably give +50% work rate in forests and +100% work rate in ancient forests. Otherwise, they end up needing three times as many workers as anyone else, except for maybe the mazatl and cuali.

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The difference between his cottage build times is 9, while for workshops it's 11. If it were simply adding the chop time the differences would be the same. There's clearly some sort of multiplier in FF.

In FfH it works as you say, though.

Another repeatable CTD. Not the same as the scions one because this one actually gives me a message (and the scions aren't even in this game)

Justicar333 said:

I'm not really sure what is wrong. Noticed on a trade with Tasunke that getting his world map crashed the game to desktop. Repeatadly. So decided to try going into world builder. And that causes CTD as well. I could continue the game... just not getting any world maps for now. But figure something out there is causing that crash. And once my ships find it, it's game over.

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xienwolf said:

Do you have Gridlines turned on? Turn them off and try again if so, see if it still crashes. If not, MAYBE the Scions Haunted Lands crash is only happening when you can actually see the units, but most likely it is not that, so I'd like to get a save from you so I can see if this is our third CtD issue of 51.

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Justicar333 said:

Gridlines are not on, and the game still has the same CTD issue. Things are fine on my happy little island. But can't get the world map or access world builder. Here is the most up to date save file from it Xienwolf.

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xienwolf said:

Justicar: Crashed for me as well, checking things out now to see if I can fix this one or not.

EDIT: All I can tell on the debugging is that a city exists somewhere that shouldn't. So I would have to guess the Animals or Demons managed to acquire one. I'll see what I can do to cause something to break on my own, but unfortunately I can't figure out much to do with the save just yet.

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Moved to bug thread as suggested with history from the other thread. And here is that save file below. =)

Monkeyfinger said:

Another repeatable CTD. Not the same as the scions one because this one actually gives me a message (and the scions aren't even in this game)

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Your CTD is the dwarven smithy bad art tag I mentioned earlier in this thread. Open up this file:

Fall Further 051\Assets\XML\Buildings\Civ4BuildingInfos.xml

Ctrl-f to this line:

<Type>BUILDING_DWARVEN_SMITHY</Type>

Change the ArtDefineTag line to this:

<ArtDefineTag>ART_DEF_BUILDING_FORGE</ArtDefineTag>

And resume play.

While you're at it, do the same thing for BUILDING_ADULARIA_CHAMBER.

Edit: You're experiencing the same thing, Justicar333.
Edit2: I will now throw this zip file at you, which contains the fixes for the art tag and haunted lands CTDs. Extract it to the "Fall Further 51" folder.

the Nullgolems 100% magicresistance trait dealy has a TXT_ thingy at the bottom.

Monkeyfinger said:

The difference between his cottage build times is 9, while for workshops it's 11. If it were simply adding the chop time the differences would be the same. There's clearly some sort of multiplier in FF.

In FfH it works as you say, though.

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I just looked at it in the worldbuilder. Without prereq techs, everything follows the standard base + chop time formula. With the prereq techs, everything goes horribly wrong. Everything takes longer to build in a forest than it would to chop+build, and build times in ancient forests are astronomically higher than that.

The worst case I saw was trying to build a mine in an ancient forest. Without the mining tech, it takes 33 turns. WITH the mining tech, it takes... 33 turns.

The one exception: farms in ancient forests. Those are pretty okay.

Exploring a lair, unit got itself trapped - but was able to release itself

stupidnewbie said:

I just looked at it in the worldbuilder. Without prereq techs, everything follows the standard base + chop time formula. With the prereq techs, everything goes horribly wrong. Everything takes longer to build in a forest than it would to chop+build, and build times in ancient forests are astronomically higher than that.

The worst case I saw was trying to build a mine in an ancient forest. Without the mining tech, it takes 33 turns. WITH the mining tech, it takes... 33 turns.

The one exception: farms in ancient forests. Those are pretty okay.

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IIRC this is a known issue by the Fall Farther team with the incremental tech buffs. A work-around for things that aren't lumbermills, by non-elf civs, is to do the chopping and building as seperate actions.

Does really put the elves/FoL civs in a tough spot doesn't it?

Shakiko said:

E.g.:
Building times for a Workshop for a freshly built worker (80% workrate)
Non-forest-Tile 8 turns
Forest tile 19 turns
Ancient Forest tile 22 turns

Cottage:
Non-forst tile: 5 turns
Forest tile 14 turns
AF: 33 turns

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This is a known issue we've been discussing internally. It's undoubtedly a bug, build times aren't properly discounted when building in Ancient forests

Xienwolf is looking into it

Iceciro said:

Do you have the Scions in that game (meebe over there?)

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No, over there would be the rest of the khazad, Hippus, Luchuirp, Malakim, and the good lizards from FF.

Divvu said:

...That pretty much explains it indeed... Do you think it could be also related to ger strange resurrection behavior? I have noticede no such problems by giving the Immortal promotion via WB to other units....

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Hadn't connected the two yet, but it is a potential explanation. Not sure just how it is hitting in such a strange way as yet though.

far_wanderer said:

Bringing an issue over from the "it might be a bug" thread regarding equipment:

If an equipment treasure chest is within cultural borders, and a unit is standing it that belongs to a different civ than the one that dropped the equipment, the chest is deleted the next turn (it either happens after the part of the turn when culture expands, or culture expansion is yet another trigger for the disappearance). It is also deleted immediately if the owner of the territory signs an Open Borders agreement.
The ownership of the territory, equipment, and standing unit do not matter, so long as they are not all the same - even if it's your territory and your equipment, someone else standing on it makes it go away.
This does not happen in neutral territory.

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It sounds like you did some pretty good testing, so just to save myself repeating what you already may have done, did the chest ever NOT get pushed out/deleted? Normal (Non-WB) chests will ALWAYS belong to the Barbarian Orcs, but I hide a lot of data so that you cannot actually tell that fact. The original owner is not known anymore once the chest is created, this is how it solves the scorelist retaining people for a turn or 2 after they are wiped out (due to having dropped equipment and that acting as a unit which belongs to them)

stupidnewbie said:

Your CTD is the dwarven smithy bad art tag I mentioned earlier in this thread. Open up this file:

Fall Further 051\Assets\XML\Buildings\Civ4BuildingInfos.xml

Ctrl-f to this line:

<Type>BUILDING_DWARVEN_SMITHY</Type>

Change the ArtDefineTag line to this:

<ArtDefineTag>ART_DEF_BUILDING_FORGE</ArtDefineTag>

And resume play.

While you're at it, do the same thing for BUILDING_ADULARIA_CHAMBER.

Edit: You're experiencing the same thing, Justicar333.
Edit2: I will now throw this zip file at you, which contains the fixes for the art tag and haunted lands CTDs. Extract it to the "Fall Further 51" folder.

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Thanks for catching that for them I hadn't thought to test out the recent art fixes and see if it automatically solved things for us

stupidnewbie said:

I just looked at it in the worldbuilder. Without prereq techs, everything follows the standard base + chop time formula. With the prereq techs, everything goes horribly wrong. Everything takes longer to build in a forest than it would to chop+build, and build times in ancient forests are astronomically higher than that.

The worst case I saw was trying to build a mine in an ancient forest. Without the mining tech, it takes 33 turns. WITH the mining tech, it takes... 33 turns.

The one exception: farms in ancient forests. Those are pretty okay.

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As Warkirby says, this one was actually caught by Tarquelne before 051 released, but I was in the middle of other bugs at the time and forgot about it. Sorry. I'll try to figure out precisely what/where things are going wrong.

For clarification, you were trying this inside your own borders, right? It is the technologies known by the owner of the TILE which discount your build times, not technologies known by the owner of the UNIT. So in a teammate's land, or unowned land, times are different than in your own. Though most things can only be built in your own land, so it isn't likely this was the cause of your results.

vivictius said:

No, over there would be the rest of the khazad, Hippus, Luchuirp, Malakim, and the good lizards from FF.

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Quite possibly this is the Adularia Chamber issue mentioned above by stupidnewbie

Playing as the Chislev, there is an no button for Dancing Bear. I just get the pink button in its place.

Barak said:

Playing as the Chislev, there is an no button for Dancing Bear. I just get the pink button in its place.

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This is true no matter what civ you play. It's an art issue. I believe Xienwolf (or maybe someone else, not totally sure who'll do it) is going to fix that. Expect all art issues to fixed in the upcoming Patch A. Don't know when it'll be here. The FF team is prolly working on currently known bugs and might be waiting to see if any more bugs become known.

Any input, FF modder team? Any release date on that Patch? You can tell us; we won't blab to the whole world.

Iceciro said:

....I still maintain the AI doesn't need the ability to make a fort.

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I completely agree

rocklikeafool said:

This is true no matter what civ you play. It's an art issue. I believe Xienwolf (or maybe someone else, not totally sure who'll do it) is going to fix that. Expect all art issues to fixed in the upcoming Patch A. Don't know when it'll be here. The FF team is prolly working on currently known bugs and might be waiting to see if any more bugs become known.

Any input, FF modder team? Any release date on that Patch? You can tell us; we won't blab to the whole world.

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I've fixed all the art issues reported so far, except the amurite archer. I'm not exactly sure what's wrong with that, but it's taking a lot of work to fix since I basically have to disassemble the nif, and re-rig it to make it functional.

Xien and tarq have done a few crash fixes, and the aim seems to be a non-save-breaking patch, of purely bugfixes. Not certain when we'll release, but shouldn't be long

xienwolf said:

For clarification, you were trying this inside your own borders, right? It is the technologies known by the owner of the TILE which discount your build times, not technologies known by the owner of the UNIT. So in a teammate's land, or unowned land, times are different than in your own. Though most things can only be built in your own land, so it isn't likely this was the cause of your results.

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Yes, at least my numbers all were taken in my owned tiles (even >95% of Svartalfar population)

Not a bug per say, but a concept question.

Why are the Chislev unable to build libraries, but still show the Great Library greyed out in the build list?

Not a bug, then not this thread