G-Major LII

Peets

Emperor
Hall of Fame Staff
Joined
Jul 23, 2008
Messages
1,056
Location
Belgium
While the general Hall of Fame is an ongoing competition, we like to run time-definite competitions between updates that we call Gauntlets. Standard Hall of Fame rules (*) still apply, but any games meeting the settings will be counted towards the Gauntlet.

(*) Please read the >> HOF rules << BEFORE playing!

Settings:
  • Expansion: Brave New World
  • Victory Condition: Science (though all victory conditions must be enabled)
  • Difficulty: Deity
  • Map Size: Huge
  • Map Type: Pangaea
  • Speed: Standard
  • Leader: India (Gandhi)
  • Opponents: Any
  • Version: SV8
  • Date: 1st September to 1st October 2014
The earliest finish date wins, with score as a tiebreaker.
 
Ah, I see my suggestion has come into play. Guess I have to come back to play one last civ5 game then! ;)
 
Not sure if this is a good finish time, but I am really happy with this game. My first game with Gandhi and my second deity science victory ever, and my first deity victory submitted to HOF. So prepare for a loooong write up:lol:

The start:
Rolled for a coastal salt start and got one, 3 salts, 1 Cotton, 2 wheats in first 3 rings, great start for food and production, not great for Gold. No river or mountain, should have moved settler 1 to get the river, but I somehow thought I had settled by the river, don't know what I was thinking. Thin snaky terrain with sea on both sides, so easy to defend early on, very important for me on deity.

Unfortunately, those 3 salts were the only salts I would get. It was a thin peninsula at the end that was good for only 4-5 cities. Got 3 unique luxuries in my 3 expos, and a NW, Uluru. No more salt as Enrico was my nearest neighbor and he had the rest, I have found that this is fairly usual.

The game:

Played a fairly standard 4 cities tradition, all coastal. Built a 5th city very late in the game to get to the oil. Full tradition, then 3 into Patronage to Scholasticism, then mix of finishing Rationalism and advancing Freedom to Space Procurement, then Open Commerce for some money.

BO: scout-scout-shrine-granary-worker-library. Build the shrine early as I desperately wanted to get a pantheon.And build a worker as I had a huge setback: around turn 20 I lost my warrior when I walked into 3 barbarian enemies, and my first scout trying to worker steal from Enrico. So no workers stolen from AIs or CSs. I also prioritized cargo ships throughout the whole game all of them food cargos, first to expos then to cap, I only changed them to hammers at the end to build the spaceship.

Got my pantheon t26 Earth Mother. Did not know at the time that there was no more salt and only 1 iron. Managed to get a weak religion thanks to the friendly/allied faith CS, pantheon faith and 1 faith ruin, got tithe and growth while no war. Follower beliefs itinerant preachers and 2 culture from temples, which was pretty much all was left.

Ruins gave me some gold, 2 techs (archery and animal husbandry I think), a population boost and 1 culture, a late one gave me faith. Got quite a lot of ruins, I think around 8-9, only 2 of them were useless maps or barbarian camps.

NC around t67, my 4 cities planted by t80, 3 next to mountains (not the cap though). Oracle and tradition finisher t81. Allied 2 early cities states, 1 cult and 1 faith. By t100 I had 55bpt, a religion, cities 12, 6, 5, 2 and researching Civil service. I ended the game with 1200+bpt.

Science: beeline Edu with just a small early detour into optics for the lighthouse and Sailing extra trade route. I got Edu around t114, not great but not horrible either. Entered Renaissance via Astronomy fairly late around 230, which game me time to put a some policies in Patronage, left side to Scholasticism before opening Rationalism.

Rest of beelines fairly standard: Edu, Astronomy, Architecture, Scientific Theory, Radio, Replaceable Parts (for Statue of Liberty), Plastics, Rocketry, Nano, Particle Physics. I got the science lead once my Public Schools were up. Oxford Architecture and Rati finisher was used for Flight. I got every RA that I could afford, as soon as I could afford it. At least 15 RAs I think.

Politics: My objective was to play a peaceful game, as in Deity AIs are really dangerous, I suck at war, and a war will waste resources and time unless you are very good and drive through great peace agreements. Of my neighbors, Enrico was not a problem, but I had Dido to the south in the same peninsula, and I spent the whole game bribing her to declare wars on pretty much everybody. I was nervous about her the whole game. I had invited another 3 warmongers to the party (Attila, Askia, Mongolia) and I used them to secure friendships with the rest through most of the game. For ideology, I chose freedom, and went all the way to Space Procurement to get spaceship parts with money.

I only built Oracle, Porcelain Tower, Statue of Liberty and Eiffel with a faith GE, this last one was not necessary I panicked a little bit as I was close to unhappiness due to ideology pressure. I then built Hubble with another faith GE.

Planted 2 scientists and popped around 6, 5 natural, 1 faith bought (could/should have done better here).

Could I have done better? Hell yes. I think I could have saved 20 turns by not losing those early units, not waste the faith GE on Eiffel (one more scientist!), I could not rush buy anything until the very end as I spent the game strapped for gold, and I could have built some roads or even railroads in prep for my spaceship parts move to the cap. I had to wait 4 turns for the last part to move into place, really stupid. I wasted gold in some occasions bribing city states when I could have waited a couple of turns to get the same result with a quest. I could have built my cities much taller, I spent way to much time on production focus.

What I did well: I don't regret the RAs, they were expensive and left me with almost no cash for anything else, but they were extremely powerful, and I timed them very well to take maximum advantage of Porcelain and Rati finisher. I played an almost flawless game on politics, securing friendships with pretty much everyone except the warmongers until the very end.

This is my last try though, as it is clear that I have to buy a more powerful computer! Time per turn was really loooong.:lol:
Screen Shot 2014-09-08 at 10.07.56 AM.jpg
 
Am yet to win at Deity and don't have a great strike rate on Immortal.

Giving this one a go. Am 200 and something turns in but only now starting to make progress with science (as in, I'm not last - 8th of 12).

Playing peacefully. I took Order and all my near neighbours are also Order including the culture leader (Atilla!) so no pressure.

Porcelain Tower and a few RAs going. Building units to not be too pathetic.

No faith to speak of though.

Any tips to help me over the line?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Any tips to help me over the line?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post a screenshot and some data, like whether you have a religion, a screenshot of where you are in the tech tree and a write up or screenshot of your policies, and I may be able to give you some advice. Even better, post your latest save.
 
@Bleidraner (and anyone else who's time to give tips)

I'm at Turn 228 with four cities (24, 23, 14, 11). Currently beelining Replaceable Parts but have done some of the lower tree for growth and defence. Top line I haven't done Astronomy or beyond yet.

I could have placed two cities near mountains but opted for early luxuries which also meant I could delay the top line techs some.

I didn't do much faith early as I didn't really have the ground for it so have no religion. Starting to put down some faith buildings here and there.

Appreciate any tips, observations, etc.!

Demographics:
Screen Shot 2014-09-08 at 20.33.29.jpg

Saved game: View attachment Gandhi_0228 AD-1590.Civ5Save.zip
 
@Bleidraner (and anyone else who's time to give tips)

I'm at Turn 228 with four cities (24, 23, 14, 11). Currently beelining Replaceable Parts but have done some of the lower tree for growth and defence. Top line I haven't done Astronomy or beyond yet.

I could have placed two cities near mountains but opted for early luxuries which also meant I could delay the top line techs some.

I didn't do much faith early as I didn't really have the ground for it so have no religion. Starting to put down some faith buildings here and there.

Appreciate any tips, observations, etc.!

Demographics:
View attachment 382166

Saved game: View attachment 382165
@RailandTrade:
Thank you for sharing your save file.

The good: you are making a significant amount of gold, you have chosen Order and your politics seem to be good, with mostly everybody going order. I would be EXTREMELY careful with Askia, as he can kill you anytime, even Sweden is a problem. Your city sizes are smallish, but not terrible.

The bad: Your tech rate is poor, 462bpt needs to be improved, and fast. You are beelining Plastics, you probably need to get Kremlin first, but after that definitely get those research labs up asap. Your faith is very low. Worst of all you have not really explored the map so you are not getting any benefit from the CSs. Your worst sin in this game is that you have not explored the map, 2 scouts first is almost a must in the build order, and you have to keep them exploring throughout the game. Your culture rate is very low.

Suggestions:
1. To stop wasting hammers in units, consider bribing Askia to declare war to 1 or 2 Civs, he is a warmonger, he is dying to do it, it will be pretty cheap and you are rich. For Sweden, bribe somebody to declare war on them (Indonesia? Difficult to see as you have not explored the map and we cannot see who are his other neighbors).

2. You are 3 turns away from fulfilling a CS quest of technology, make sure you get that and then spend Gold allying it and make it a priority to lay the religious CS as soon as you can to get that faith up. Explore! Get Astronomy or steal it and build a caravel or 2, try to meet more CSs, see what you can get in terms of culture and faith, happiness will be an added bonus, the rest is not important.

3. It is IMPERATIVE that you get Secularism asap, always open left side of ratio to Secularism before going to the right side, this is a science game. As soon as you get Secularism, make sure all your specialist slots are filled in the cap. If you need more food, stop sending hammers to Pataliputra, and send a food cargo to cap instead. Redeploy the caravan for food to cap from Mumbai, build another cargo asap to either cap or one of the coastal expos, and get those specialist to work. Once you get Secularism you should get as many specialists working everywhere as you can.

If you do this, you'll get to 800bpt in a very short time, say 30-40 turns, and I would expect you to get the tech lead by t260. Win the game by 360, by popping your natural GSs that you have been saving and 2 more from faith (if you get to 30fpt, you'll have the 2500 faith to buy them by t340 or even earlier if you manage to ally some more religious CSs). Another option is to faith buy 2 GEs at the end to rush build parts as you have gone Order) To be able to do that you need to finish rationalism, so get your culture production up with some CS allies and maybe some buildings. You would need to build Kremlin but I am afraid you will lose that one to Pocatellio, try anyway by bribing Pocatello to declare war on some neighbors and beelining Railroad instead of Plastics first, spend a GS if you need to to do this fast. I am not sure if this last is good advice, as I don't know how long ago Pocatello built Brandenburg, if it is recent, then definitely go for Kremlin.

Byt the way you are wasting a spy on counterintelligence, nobody is going to spy on you and if they do, that's fine. Steal techs (you have enough money to buy CSs so no need to rig elections for now)!

Build Artist guild asap in the cap, you should pot the artists for Golden Ages.

Good luck, I hope this is useful.
 
@Bleidraner

That was certainly a post and a half - thank you for taking the time and for your comments.

I’ve played it through now and successfully notched up a victory at turn 315 - my first win in Deity. Very pleased. :)

A synopsis of the rest of my game:
- I didn’t go for Kremlin in the end as wonders were going fast and it felt like too much of a gamble. Perhaps next time if I improve my early game.

- I did get a caravel (eventually) but discovered I was on an inland sea with no coastal CS… :(

- I got double DOWed by Ramham and Indonesia after befriending Askia. Ramham didn’t send a single unit at me and Askia was persuaded to wreak havoc on Indonesia. The sweet part was that Indonesia offered me a peace deal with 42 GPT attached which well and truly covered my 8GPT + 2 horse war bribe.

- Sweden seemed happy to be friends although he did march some troops up and down my borders. I mirrored his with the units I had (war elephants against infantry) and he seemed to be content to stay the right side of the line.

- Lesson learned on rationalism. I went right side thinking it’d get me there faster with all the trading posts I was building…

- I rush bought some culture buildings late game to try and close rationalism earlier in order to faith buy a GS only to discover it might have been better to faith buy a GE and build the last part quicker… Oh well. :)

- Artist’s guild went up and gave me a few golden ages.

- Askia stole my land with 2 GGs near the end. I left him alone but when I completed my last part, dropped my entire nuclear arsenal on him and then waved goodbye from the spaceship. It was a war I wouldn't have won but it felt surprisingly good and justified. :lol:

A few questions if I may:
1) I did some early scouting but, as you pointed out, didn’t uncover much of the map before they got killed off. I was mainly interested in seeing who was a potential threat rather than meeting CS because no matter how much gold I generate, the AI seems to generate more and with Ramham on the scene, I figured I didn’t have the wallet to keep the CS alliances going (particularly distant CS as fulfilling their quests tends to be more of a challenge).

How do you go about securing and keeping your CS alliances?

2) Probably related to question 1, but how to you improve your culture rate? Is it purely through CS alliances?

3) On spying, I was looking to level a spy in my capital before putting them to work elsewhere on stealing or rigging. Do the AI get bonuses to catch your spies (i.e., is it worth attempting to level them before sending them out)?

4) Do you bother with a Writers’ Guild? I did as I thought my culture was pathetic so burned all but one of my Great Writers for boosts.

Thanks again for your tips. Looking forward to my next game.
 
@Bleidraner

That was certainly a post and a half - thank you for taking the time and for your comments.

I’ve played it through now and successfully notched up a victory at turn 315 - my first win in Deity. Very pleased. :)

You should be. It is a great result and much better than what I though you could do. Congratulations! As for taking the time - I enjoy it, and it is a privilege to be able to learn from your game.

A few questions if I may:
1) I did some early scouting but, as you pointed out, didn’t uncover much of the map before they got killed off. I was mainly interested in seeing who was a potential threat rather than meeting CS because no matter how much gold I generate, the AI seems to generate more and with Ramham on the scene, I figured I didn’t have the wallet to keep the CS alliances going (particularly distant CS as fulfilling their quests tends to be more of a challenge).

How do you go about securing and keeping your CS alliances?

Scouting essential, not just because of the CSs but also to understand the map and the political dynamics, plus the AIs may have missed a ruin. Also you if you cannot keep alliances, you can get some friendships, and they also contribute, but with the money you were making, you could have kept the Cult CSs and a couple of religious ones allied I think. Remember that a lot of the quests solve themselves, like when they want a particular luxury, or biggest science, cult or faith in 30 turns, or building a specific wonder or even bullying. If you practice with the CSs you will find multiple tricks that save money and secure alliances or friendships.

2) Probably related to question 1, but how to you improve your culture rate? Is it purely through CS alliances?

In deity yes, as I prefer faith pantheons. And you cannot get any wonders before Leaning tower and tech lead apart from Oracle or a policy tree specific wonder that nobody has opened. In my latest game I had 164 cpt of which 52 was coming from 2 allied cult CSs (26 each, this is Atomic Era). So culture (and faith for that matter) from CSs makes a hell of a difference.

3) On spying, I was looking to level a spy in my capital before putting them to work elsewhere on stealing or rigging. Do the AI get bonuses to catch your spies (i.e., is it worth attempting to level them before sending them out)?

It is absolutely worth it but not in deity before tech lead. Who is going to spy on you? I definitely use it in the lower levels as it is the fastest way to level up spies.

4) Do you bother with a Writers’ Guild? I did as I thought my culture was pathetic so burned all but one of my Great Writers for boosts.

I always build it as soon as possible, as it contributes science after secularism and an early Rati opener makes an enormous difference in science games.

Thanks again for your tips. Looking forward to my next game.
De nada. Me too:)
 
So just finished my first try at a HoF game. It was my third start on this challange and I managed to end it at turn 259 - which I am very happy about.

Short writeup:

Started out by moving my settler southwest to get onto hill next to mountain. I was hoping to find coast there (or I would have abandoned the map) and I did. started scout-scout and stole my first worker from one Buenos Aires (to the right on screenshot). Got lots of ruins but many wasted (maps, barb camps). I decided against going for a pantheon since I felt like it was a hit or miss, and I didn't have any amazing terrain features that needed it (picked the palace boosting pantheon when I popped a free pantheon in a goody hut)

Instead of rushing philo and get NC ASAP I decided to land grab two great locations to my north, thereby sealing off what I assumed was a peninsula (I never scouted south, since I figured I could leave that 'til late and still get anything there). I placed one city on the left of the mountain range, then one on the right, grabbing iron, horses and marble (none of which were found near my capital). I let them both grow once then focused production for libraries for NC around turn 75-80 or so.

By that time I realized that my third city was on an inland sea, so I hurried up and placed a fourth (and final) city on the one tile dividing the two bodies of water. After that I rushed universities and observatories, I was already catching up the tech lead. I did stray a bit by going for the Sistine Chapel. One of my previous attempts I pretty much lost due to ideological pressure and I figured I'd keep my culture high enough not to have to worry too much.

I got lucky with a few city state quests and managed to get and stay allied with both the culture city states right next door to me pretty much all the game. That meant I got science from city state allies without having to delay rationalism. I decided to ignore faith altogether as I couldn't find any religious city states. Instead i focused culture->food->happiness (only when natural happiness was low due to ideological pressure) for allies.

I was the first one to pick ideologies, and I picked freedom solely for the statue of liberty. I only invested into the two free policies in freedom, then figured I'd see where I was at by the time I completed rationalism. I timed oxford to pick radio, then rationalism finisher for plastics, grabbed fertilizer for food boost in cap then beelined Penicillin (new era, cheaper skipped techs) -> Satellites (duh) -> advanced ballistics -> Particle phys then nano.

I managed to close rationalism even before I finished the statue of liberty, and I was put in a situation where I had to either invest more in freedom or open commerce. Because the AI were all going order, I decided that keeping DoFs (RAs) and avoiding war was worth giving up freedom, and as soon as the statue was done I revolted into order. I know this wasted a couple of turns from revolution while it made me unable to buy parts with gold and extra golden age length + great person improvement yield.

I am still happy with the choice, luckily, it didn't take me too long to grab two more policies (+1 free from the statue) and get 25% science from factories. I never had to buy or build any military or defense during the entire game. I was guarded by Korea and Ethiopia, so even though Poland and France DoWed me, I never saw even one of their units near my territory and could grab a white peace after a few turns.


In the end, production slowed me more than science, I had two GEs to finish the last 2 spaceship parts as soon as I finished the last tech. Though I was stupid enough to not realize I could have done so in one of my beaker building cities and shaved one turn off of my complete. If someone beats me because of that one wasted turn, I deserve to lose just from that stupid slip.

Either way, here is a screenie of my little corner of the map, with my two trusty city state allies to the right (even though I stole that first worker from Buenos Aires, they came to trust me and remain my ally for some 200+ turns):
 

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my computer explodes on huge and deity

Mine doesn't explode, but the game sure becomes boooooring sometime around t200. Especially the India science game, since you will never really have any units to micro. The average player turn will be a few seconds long, the average AI+CS will take several minutes.
 
So just finished my first try at a HoF game. It was my third start on this challange and I managed to end it at turn 259 - which I am very happy about.

Congratulations n0m0n. Great result. Can I ask you about the timings? What turn did you plant expos 2 and 3 and when did you get NC? Also, I have never revolted and changed ideologies, what turn did you do that and how much time did you waste?
 
Congratulations n0m0n. Great result. Can I ask you about the timings? What turn did you plant expos 2 and 3 and when did you get NC? Also, I have never revolted and changed ideologies, what turn did you do that and how much time did you waste?

Thanks!

You know what? I never thought this would be such a good game so didn't really keep track of turns early on. Still:

1) I had very little food in capital, so letting it grow wasn't really an option before borders grew from culture. As soon as I could work all three silver resources I started building a settler (since you don't have to worry about starvation then) and the second settler came almost right after, I think I let my cap grow to pop 4 first though.

Thanks to an early cs quest I got a culture ally super quick (and using the gold from working all silver I could keep it all game) and I could grab food for capital policy fast, before I really started growing the pop. I think I went something like scout, scout (a few turns of settler before pottery) granary, settler, library, settler, archer, archer, worker, NC IIRC.

NC finished around turn 80-85 I think. I got my first two cargo ships supplying food to capital and western expansion first. I realized it was an inland sea not by exploring south, but by being unable to send cargo ships. I used second archer to explore south (first archer busy guarding western part of lower peninsula from spawning barbs and killing cargo ships) and I think I built the settler for my fourth city almost right after finishing NC.

I'd guess my first expansion was settled around turn 30 and my second around 45.

Since all my cities were coastal and cap + 2 others were on mountains, education was followed by bee-lining astronomy. I was amazingly lucky with culture I think, 'cause I got rationalism opener only a couple of turns after astronomy, and I was closing in on tech lead way before getting to industrialism. After getting public schools up it was really no competition. I had all my trade routes supplying food to capital and primary expansions (the cities with observatories) save 1 or 2 to make sure my last city didn't fall too far behind (pop growth gets so expensive after 15 or so, it just made sense to grow fourth city even without the observatory in it. It also had good natural growth from multiple fish + lighthouse and a nice camp with deers.


2) - I suffered two turns of anarchy (everything shuts down except units, so workers can still improve land but you gain no culture or science and no city production) and I lost the free tenets since I wasn't first or second to order. I do believe that swapping ensured I got a white peace (was already DoWed by France and Poland before I could swap) and made sure I could keep my RAs running with everyone except Poland and Iroquois (Poland went autocracy, Iroquois went freedom) and more importantly I didn't get DoWed by anyone else. Wasting production cycles on military + paying upkeep is not good. I didn't manage to get any militaristic cs allies until late either, and wanted to prioritize culture and food (culture since I figured I might have to switch ideologies).

The most important part of freedom was the wonder either way, and I could use the free policy for my first tenet in order the very same turn it was completed. After that the most important policies/tenets were science from factories and rushing spaceship parts with GEs (I prefer going freedom and using gold, but I realized that would be too much of a gamble and the gold was still useful for RAs and CS gifts - I could never really afford spending gold on buying in cities, but that was okay).

Being able to rush the parts is a must for optimizing a science win: As soon as you finish your last tech you can rush the part and shave 5-6 turns or more (depending on biggest production city). My last RA popped and gave me the final tech on turn 256 or 257. Would have won on turn 258 if I had positioned my GE in western expansion rather than leaving him in cap, since I was already about to complete a part in cap.


I think ignoring faith was a good call. I think delaying NC by getting third city up was necessary to get the best locations and having all four cities coastal with the cap next to a mountain is pretty much needed to get an early win. If I would have started next to a warmonger I would have probably been DoWed and lost, but Korea was the perfect neighbor (I got a bunch of free beakers from early AI trade routes). The double culture CS allies was also just great (I'd say 20-30% of my science came from CS allies).

One more thing to add: Making sure to pick worlds fair at first council helps enormously for getting some extra diplo points with the AIs. I would never go for the gold award though, the free policy is all you need to close rationalism faster (to get the best pay out from all RAs of course).


Oh, and I managed to steal banking the same turn I finished printing press, so I also ignored industrialization until after radio (bee-lined the public schools instead then got oxford to grab radio). As I said, I was very lucky most of the game. I never really wasted any turns but made sure everything was timed well.

I kind of regret building Sistine Chapel though, since I think an earlier observatory and then just getting hermitage for the culture would have probably shaved another couple of turns from the win. I think if I had played it perfect I might have finished around turn 250-252.
 
Thanks for the write up n0m0n! Your timings were great. Not luck, you were just impressively efficient.:goodjob:
 
Thanks for the write up n0m0n! Your timings were great. Not luck, you were just impressively efficient.:goodjob:

Thank you for your kind words, sir. I will add that I didn't really consider the huge importance of going coastal before I read your post. Basically it is like having a bunch of hanging garden wonders.
 
I'm really new to Civ and I still can't get it right when it comes to chose other civilizations.

Who should I pick here ? I feel that going random is too risky.
 
I usually pick 2-3 warmongers and hope that they are far away (Mongolia, Attila are my favorites). that helps with friendships and distracting the other civs. You just hope that are not next to you, if they are, reroll. For the rest of the civs, I usually pick peaceful or semi peaceful civs like Haille, Morocco, Harun, Catherine, Enrico, and so on. I even once picked Gandhi, spent like 80 turns wondering why it had such an unusual color scheme, until I realized that I was Gandhi too and of course HOF rules don't allow that:D Pity it was a great game.
 
:D Thanks for the tips.

I think I will ask the same when it comes to domination, diplomacy and science victory, somehow I always feel that I choose the wrong civs :(. I guess that having 2 or 3 warmongers is always good, and then try to discard according to your victory condition.
 
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