Napoleonic Wars discussion.

I wanted to create a thread to ask some questions and discuss the French Revolutionary Wars and the Napoleonic Era.

The other thing I am curious about is a map of Europe in 1792. I've looked and cannot find a decent one that shows locations and names of cities. Usually they will show just the capitals. Does anyone have any accurate maps of Europe around that time?

The locations and names of cities i Europe haven't changed much since 1792.*

*Except for a few obvious ones and all those German named cities that are now slavic, but Wikipedia has an entry on that you can use.

Yoda Power said:

The locations and names of cities i Europe haven't changed much since 1792.*

*Except for a few obvious ones and all those German named cities that are now slavic, but Wikipedia has an entry on that you can use.

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What cities did the Austrian Netherlands control?

nokmirt said:

What cities did the Austrian Netherlands control?

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For starters, pretty much any major Belgian city minus Liege but including Luxemburg.

Why did Napoleon force Russia to stop trading with Great Britain?

It didn't. France was in no position to force anything upon Russia. But check continental system.

There are videos like this one which try to show changing borders over time: that may not be a bad starting point. Do you want the map for anything serious or for a general overview?

LouisPhilippe said:

Why did Napoleon force Russia to stop trading with Great Britain?

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He tried to do so because he, quite rightly, figured out that Britain's trading capability meant it was going to outgrow France in the long term. As he saw no peace with GB ever being possible he had to do something to stop it winning the economic race in the long term. Or rather, extend it's economic lead ever further.

IMHO, Napoleon "lost the war" when he crowned himself Emperor.

Before that, he was a champion of republicanism, fighting for the right of people to rule themselves.
After that, he was seen a just another foreign monarch. Patriots everywhere opposed him.

Beethoven tore up the symphony he was writing to honor Napoleon. Then he thought better of it, re-wrote it, and changed the nate to Eroica.

Zkribbler said:

IMHO, Napoleon "lost the war" when he invaded Russia.

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Fixed that for you.

The peninsular war was the beginning of the end. Invading Russia was kind of desparate

As Napolean recalled at St. Helena, "the Spaniards ruined my empire!"

Even in defeat he could not be gracious! That french bastard ruined Spain and several other nations of Europe, and set the stage for world domination by the UK and later the USA. The damage caused by the french wars on the nascent industrial capacity of late 18th century continental Europe was immense, comparable with that of the 20th century german madman, Hitler.

Anglo-saxon world primacy the work of the imperial dreams of a french. At least it can be described as ironic.

I have started to find the events leading up through the French revolution to the eventual downfall of the French empire fascinating. But I only know bits and pieces. I also don't feel like jumping into a very heavy history text, are there any good books about this period in French history that are a bit lighter (and recommended)?

How about reflecting French history of 1789-1815 to Soviet Union's rise and fall (1917-1991)?

innonimatu said:

The damage caused by the french wars on the nascent industrial capacity of late 18th century continental Europe was immense, comparable with that of the 20th century german madman, Hitler.

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I'm not sure this is totally accurate. Most of what I've read suggests the Napoleonic Wars actually accelerated the pace of industrialization. But certainly they left Britain in a better economic position than the Continent.

I do know that in my country the nascent industry was devastated, literally, by the french invaders. Abut half the manufactures in the country were pillaged and burnt. And with the government moving to Brazil, also a consequence of the invasions, there followed a long period of stagnation. Afaik Spain fared just as bad. Both countries had had a century of peace and prosperity at home, both had a century intermittent economic crisis and civil wars after.

Lexicus said:

I'm not sure this is totally accurate. Most of what I've read suggests the Napoleonic Wars actually accelerated the pace of industrialization. But certainly they left Britain in a better economic position than the Continent.

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I can believe that for Britain and France, but what about Germany, Portugal, Italy, Spain and Russia? The French were, after all, famous for living off the land. The Hitler analogy may be a good one - the Second World War was fantastic for the American economy, bad for the British economy, and catastrophic for the German economy. Trying to average that out probably isn't wise.

Yoda Power said:

The locations and names of cities i Europe haven't changed much since 1792.*

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But the size and significance have changed. And for the Napoleontic time, the military significance (trade routes with little height differences, rivers, swamps, mountains, etc), made many cities important that are now economical of minor value and are only of some size now because they already were !
(and automatical became after Napoleon regional centres for authorities, universities, hospitals, institutions).

I once was, long time ago, in a museum where they had made an dynamic map of the area: starting in the dark prehistory and small light bulbs lightened up as function of time showing settlements, growing into cities. First a few on the best spots to survive, then along old trade routes, then with the romans the strategic strongholds, etc.
Very insightful to see that happen.
With modern software: Is that already been done with the whole of Europe ???
A kind of CIV like representation of RL history

A bit back on topic:
Below a link to a dynamic program, an animated map, that shows the battles of Napoleon in South Germany, part of the Ulm to Austerlitz campaign of 1805 The battle of which Napoleon later said: "that battle we won by marching" !
You see also the relevant cities of France to Austria.
Made by the department of history of the Oregon university. Very interesting to see

http://pages.uoregon.edu/dracobly/napoleon/

plarq said:

How about reflecting French history of 1789-1815 to Soviet Union's rise and fall (1917-1991)?

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Actually, recently I've though about it as a vaguely similar story to the Arab Spring.
People used to compare it to 1848, but if we look at Egypt, there's a nice similarity to the French Revolution in interior matters.

1. A civilian revolution against long reigning single rulers, detached from the people.
2. Attempts to establish a more enlightened government - Republic in France or elections in Egypt.
3. A controversial rule takes the lead - reign of terror / Muslim Brotherhood, Mursey plays Robespierre.
4. Being brought down for dissatisfaction of some sort.
5. A new star of the Republican / democratic system rises up, and he is adored by the people, but it seems he slowly takes the country back into the single rule. Sisi plays Napoleon.

I know those comparisons sound a bit funny, and the French story was far more radical in every aspect mentioned here, but it is still a sequence of incidents that can look somewhat parallel.