Arioch's Analyst Thread

Mercade · Jul 23, 2010

Peng Qi said:
The brown resource could be tobacco.

That's quite possible. The three parallel brown strips could be tobacco leaves. In fact, the brownish blotch that was glimpsed and seen as possibly salpeter could be natural tobacco? Otoh, in today's ratings the game would probably be R-rated for having tobacco in it.

bjbrains · Jul 23, 2010

Unit decomissioning gives you gold:

And my own annotated tech tree:

I tried to find the best image I could, but a lot of the techs are easier to see on the actual moving video since the camera is shifting in and out of focus so often.

AriochIV · Jul 23, 2010

I concur with your version. I had figured out the rest, but I would never have gotten Fertilizer or Archaeology.

Calouste · Jul 23, 2010

Archaeology? Curious. Wonder what benefits come with that, maybe a Museum building?

And it looks like there is going to be a whole lot of food available in the late game with both Fertilizer and Biology undoubtly giving food bonusses.

Military science leading to Steam Power looks a bit clumsy. It would make more sense IMO to swap the positions of Metallurgy and Military Science. (Not saying you got your labels wrong, just saying that I think the tech tree would make more sense the other way around).

bjbrains · Jul 23, 2010

Calouste said:
Archaeology? Curious. Wonder what benefits come with that.

And it looks like there is going to be a whole lot of food available in the late game with both Fertilizer and Biology undoubtly giving food bonusses.

Military science leading to Steam Power looks a bit clumsy. It would make more sense IMO to swap the positions of Metallurgy and Military Science.

Perhaps the food bonus from biology has been rolled into fertilizer? Of course, we pretty much have no idea about those details, but it's a thought. I am glad to see fertilizer be a real tech though, it has completely changed the shape of agriculture throughout most of the world.

AriochIV · Jul 23, 2010

Calouste said:
Military science leading to Steam Power looks a bit clumsy. It would make more sense IMO to swap the positions of Metallurgy and Military Science. (Not saying you got your labels wrong, just saying that I think the tech tree would make more sense the other way around).

I'm glad they're paying more attention to making the right units/upgrades available at the right time in history rather than trying to make the links logical.

I'm wondering what the unit under Metallurgy is. The Cannon is under Chemistry, so it's something we haven't seen yet.

bjbrains · Jul 23, 2010

AriochIV said:
I'm glad they're paying more attention to making the right units/upgrades available at the right time in history rather than trying to make the links logical.

I'm wondering what the unit under Metallurgy is. The Cannon is under Chemistry, so it's something we haven't seen yet.

It definitely seems to be something that you build (you can see the production symbol barely as he scrolls), but it could be some kind of building as well.

AriochIV · Jul 23, 2010

The icon breaks the boundaries of the circle; only the units appear to do that. The building and wonder icons are all circular.

Calouste · Jul 23, 2010

bjbrains said:
Perhaps the food bonus from biology has been rolled into fertilizer? Of course, we pretty much have no idea about those details, but it's a thought. I am glad to see fertilizer be a real tech though, it has completely changed the shape of agriculture throughout most of the world.

Fertilizer's only benefit looks like a star, and that's very likely +1 :food:

to farms.

Biology has three benefits, two buildings and one terrain improvement by the looks of it? Terrain improvement is interesting, have no real idea what it could be, as all resource improvements come earlier, maybe upgraded farms?

Steam Power has two stars, maybe faster workers and more production from mines?

AriochIV · Jul 23, 2010

I think I know what the colored icons next to the build options are. They are the recommendations of your different advisors. The presenter at this point says "Our Science Advisor is recommending a Worker," and there are no other Advisor windows open.

Blue would be the Science advisor, Red the Military (recommending a Scout), and the others probably Foreign and Economic.

Schuesseled · Jul 23, 2010

if you notice steam power also has two other lines leading to it. so maybe either of them can lead to it not just the illogical miltary science.

Calouste said:
Addition for Arioch:

Oslo is also a city state. Maritime as can be seen in the final stategic view screenshot that 2K_Greg put up.

A bit of speculation about city state names:

There are going to be a lot of them in the game and at the moment we know the following:
Geneva
Vienna
Singapore
Rio de Janeiro
Budapest
Florence
Venice
Sidon
Oslo

So which other ones could be used? Cities in existing Civs (and most likely Civs that has been identified as future Civs which might give some clues) are out obviously.

Europe, specially in Medieval and Renaissance times had many of them, and of course there are many small countries whose capital can be used (Oslo, Vienna and Budapest being confirmed examples).

Some of my suggestions:
Bern - Militaristic (Swiss Mercenaries)
Malta - Militaristic (Knights Hospitaller)
Carthage - Maritime
Jerusalem - Cultured
Havana
Cape Town - Maritime
Colombo (Sri Lanka)
Sydney and/or Melbourne
Gdansk/Krakow (both of which were semi-independent city states at some point)
Troy
Kathmandu - Cultured
Antioch

The thing I am struggling with the most is some more militaristic city states. Most of the old ones, Sparta for example, are already in actual civs. I really don't think they are going to add current day ones like Pyongyang or Baghdad. Maybe Maori or some other Polynesians?

Its also possible (and perhaps likely) that city states will be randomly assigned a "type of city state" at the beginning of the game.

Edit: @arioch, ah yes i was wondering what he was talking about, that does make sense, also keeps the build queue small no long words like "recommended science" attached to the units, just a symbol. Good logic.

Wezqu · Jul 23, 2010

Calouste said:
The thing I am struggling with the most is some more militaristic city states. Most of the old ones, Sparta for example, are already in actual civs. I really don't think they are going to add current day ones like Pyongyang or Baghdad. Maybe Maori or some other Polynesians?

For militaristic city states:

Königsberg (Prussia)
Kyoto (Japan) (still might be reserved for actual civilization in coming expansion)

Others could be

Austin (Texas)
Luxemburg
Pisa
Hong Kong

Calouste · Jul 23, 2010

Schuesseled said:
if you notice steam power also has two other lines leading to it. so maybe either of them can lead to it not just the illogical miltary science.

The tech tree suggests that you need all prerequisites. There are two techs that have one prerequisites but not the others and can't be researched, and there isn't anything that indicates a difference between prerequisites, i.e. that some might be optional but others aren't as was in Civ4 with either a line or the icon in the more advacned tech.

Schuesseled said:
Its also possible (and perhaps likely) that city states will be randomly assigned a "type of city state" at the beginning of the game.

Edit: @arioch, ah yes i was wondering what he was talking about, that does make sense, also keeps the build queue small no long words like "recommended science" attached to the units, just a symbol. Good logic.

Randomly assigning a type to a city state would be flavor fail IMO (Budapest a maritime city state :crazyeye:

). Why not just randomly (well, with maritime ones obviously coastal) assign a type to a city state site and then pick a name from the list? Unless you have to do something to find out what type a city state is when you first find them, but that looks like an unnecessary hassle to me.

arkammler · Jul 23, 2010

Calouste said:
Steam Power has two stars, maybe faster workers and more production from mines?

Sound right in line with history.

Calouste · Jul 23, 2010

Wezqu said:
For militaristic city states:

Königsberg (Prussia)
Kyoto (Japan) (still might be reserved for actual civilization in coming expansion)

Others could be

Austin (Texas)
Luxemburg
Pisa
Hong Kong

Japan is a confirmed civ in the vanilla version actually.

Königsberg is a good suggestion, Teutonic knights and all that.

Hong Kong is not a bad idea, but I think the real life Chinese government would be a bit sensetive to suggestions of an independent Hong Kong, even in a computer game. Better send a polite letter to the Chinese embassy first

Wezqu · Jul 23, 2010

Calouste said:
Japan is a confirmed civ in the vanilla version actually.

Königsberg is a good suggestion, Teutonic knights and all that.

Hong Kong is not a bad idea, but I think the real life Chinese government would be a bit sensetive to suggestions of an independent Hong Kong, even in a computer game. Better send a polite letter to the Chinese embassy first

Lol I thought I didn't see Japan on the list must be tired or something. Still it could be listed as Japan was long time ago full of small states before they were united into one. Also about the Hong Kong its was for a long time a city state even if it was really part of Great Britain. It had self ruling rights like all other nations still "under their rule". I would still think Hong Kong would not really be a big deal but Taiwan I would see as more dangerous to add.

Calouste · Jul 23, 2010

Mercade said:
That's quite possible. The three parallel brown strips could be tobacco leaves. In fact, the brownish blotch that was glimpsed and seen as possibly salpeter could be natural tobacco? Otoh, in today's ratings the game would probably be R-rated for having tobacco in it.

The content rating for Civ5 says "Drug reference, mild violence, mild language", where the one for Civ4 only said "violence".

So we can conclude that Wine is not a drug and that Civ5 has finally implemented a feature where you can tell a civ to sod off if they keep bugging you with requests :lol:

Peng Qi · Jul 23, 2010

Calouste said:
(there might be generic movement promotions instead).

+1 movement wouldn't be as overpowered a promotion in a Civ game where every unit moves 2 minimum.

bjbrains · Jul 23, 2010

Peng Qi said:
+1 movement wouldn't be as overpowered a promotion in a Civ game where every unit moves 2 minimum.

I'd argue that it'd be more powerful because the 1upt system allows flank/rear attacks on vulnerable units. If you can catch an opponent off guard with fast attack units, you could cut down his powerful, but fragile ranged support.

Peng Qi · Jul 23, 2010

bjbrains said:
And my own annotated tech tree:

I tried to find the best image I could, but a lot of the techs are easier to see on the actual moving video since the camera is shifting in and out of focus so often.

That says Military Tradition, not science.

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