I cant stand this.....

FireStorm5 · Mar 15, 2005

Why does the combat system get so messed up? I know you have all read alot of situations like this, and well....your about to read another one. I'm the Ottoman Empire. Its around the middle of the middle ages, I have 8 knights ready to take out one of Russias cities. The problem....a pikeman is gaurding it. Alrght I thought yeah pikemen have a good defense, but HOW COULD ONE PIKEMAN TAKE OUT 7 KNIGHTS? Yeah, there have been times where smaller armies beat bigger ones, but I mean come on. That is like today Canada taking over the United States. It just doesn't happen. Your right those 8 knights weren't my whole attacking force my other 6 knights where too busy getting their butts handed to them by 2 swordsmen on foot. I can forgive this once or twice, but this happens to me just about every game and its making things less fun.

Oh and yeah I'm new to the forums. Nice first post to get things going good dont you think?

Tomoyo · Mar 15, 2005

Umm... What terrain was the Pikeman on? What size was the city? Did you make your sacrifices to the RNG gods?

Welcome to CFC! [party]

vmxa · Mar 15, 2005

You are allowed to scream. Even with max bonus of 250% it should not happen.
A=4 HP=4 count=8, VS D=3 HP=4 count=1 in a city on a hill over a river and fortified. It still is nasty. Now when your horsemen kill the pike, you cannot say anything.

Puppeteer · Mar 15, 2005

Let's see, size 7 city on a hill, that fortified pikeman is defending at 6.25 or 6.5. You're attacking across a river, so you're attacking at 2.

Probably not the case, but the point is check your terrain.

Plus, and people who gripe about combat don't get this: Random is not the same as evenly distributed. If something feels random it probably isn't. You will get runs of bad results.

It sucks, though! Feel for ya.

EDIT: Crosspost, heh.

island007 · Mar 15, 2005

When you write 'take out', did all seven knights die or did some retreat? Also, were all the units veterans?
A pikeman fortified on a hill in a town defends at ((3*(1+.5+.5+.25)) = 6.75 or 7.5 if you have to cross a river.
Also, once the pikeman kills two units it will promote.

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3combatcalc.html

rbis4rbb · Mar 15, 2005

FireStorm5 said:
Why does the combat system get so messed up? I know you have all read alot of situations like this, and well....your about to read another one. I'm the Ottoman Empire. Its around the middle of the middle ages, I have 8 knights ready to take out one of Russias cities. The problem....a pikeman is gaurding it. Alrght I thought yeah pikemen have a good defense, but HOW COULD ONE PIKEMAN TAKE OUT 7 KNIGHTS? Yeah, there have been times where smaller armies beat bigger ones, but I mean come on. That is like today Canada taking over the United States. It just doesn't happen. Your right those 8 knights weren't my whole attacking force my other 6 knights where too busy getting their butts handed to them by 2 swordsmen on foot. I can forgive this once or twice, but this happens to me just about every game and its making things less fun.

Oh and yeah I'm new to the forums. Nice first post to get things going good dont you think?

Seriously, though, its just the RNG.

Renata · Mar 16, 2005

Relax, have a cigar.

Happens to the best of us. And maybe start writing down the unbelievable good luck when you get it so that you remember it better.

Welcome to CFC!

Renata

Grogs · Mar 16, 2005

Well, it's human nature to attribute bad things to external forces (bad luck) and good things to internal ones (man, I'm a good tactician.) The truth is though that any result, good or bad, is probably a combination of both. Being what we are, we often fail to recognize the good luck when it comes.

I recently had a streak of *good* luck in the game that I noticed. I had been having terrible, terrible losses fighting the AI. Against redlined infantry, I was losing 2-3 veteran cavalry for every defender I took out and I was railing about the bad luck I was having. By the time tanks came along, I had reached the AI's capital. I decided that since the age of cavalry was over, I would send the cavalry in a 'suicide charge' to soften the resistance for my tanks. Of the 20 cavalry I sent, only 1 died and they managed to take out 12 infantry :lol:

and captured the enemy capital.

Own · Mar 16, 2005

we sometimes get unbelievably great luck, sometimes frustating bad luck. an example of bad luck is when my 8 immortals refused to take out the town defended by 3 spearman (i was about to kill someone), and we sometimes get good luck, like when i was winning a war and for fun sent 3 medieval infantry, one wounded, to a city with fortified musketman. i captured the city.

FireStorm5 · Mar 16, 2005

Yeah..I do have good luck too. I just notice the bad luck more. I guess I'll try it again except with a few more knighrs and I'll try pounding them with some catapults or something. Afterall I cant lose all the time.....or can I :crazyeye:

?

Also in another game I was playing I had some more hyorrible luck. It was the modern ages and I had a fairly expansive empire. The only problem is that the only resource that had appeared in my territory was that sultpepper stuff, and that wont help me much in the modern ages.

FireStorm5 · Mar 16, 2005

Alright, I went back to the save before the horrible lose and sent along a few extra units then I did before to find that they had now spread their pikemen out so I could go along and take them out pretty easily. I just mainly went to war for some extra iron and salpeter, but by the time I got sultpeter then I reached the Industrial age so its becomming less important, but oh well land is good :king:

I've forgotten what its actually called so I've just spelled salpeter four different ways through out my posts. (salpepper, salpeter, sultpeter, Salpeter) I had to get it right one of those times didn't I? :blush:

wilbill · Mar 16, 2005

(salpepper, salpeter, sultpeter, Salpeter) I had to get it right one of those times didn't I?

Not necessarily.

It's saltpeter.

One thing you need to keep in mind when you're on the offensive is that just because your best offensive unit (knights in this case) is the strongest unit on the map, it may not be that much stronger than the defenders. The knight has an attack factor of 4, so it's not always decisively stronger than the defenders you'll be facing (spearmen, pikemen). Put the defender in a walled town or a city, on a hill, behind a river, and fortify it and the knight won't come out so well.

eldar · Mar 17, 2005

You're the Ottomans, and Saltpeter isn't important?! Sipahi utterly rule, even when faced with Infantry and Tanks.

Tman65 · Mar 21, 2005

Trebuchets. Lots and lots of trebuchets. Slows down the offensive but very effective.

AA-battery · Mar 21, 2005

I've had an army of 4 veteran mech infantry lose to 1 veteran rifleman with the rifleman not losing a single health. And was on a grassland tile too. Sometimes these things happen. Thats why we have artillery!

mryerse · Mar 21, 2005

I normally bombard the city with a catapult or anything that can bombard to weaked whatever their defense is before I attack. Sometimes I even have 4 or more units that can bombard in one turn and then two or three other units ready to attack to take over the city. Just be sure you don't lose your catapults or whatever you have, they can't defend themselves alone. Catapults seem to miss a lot so I think having at least 4 together is a must. I figure on 50% hit rate, and consider there might be two units in a city, you'll get maybe two hits. If there's two units with three life each, then you didn't even weaken it all that you can. 6 catapults would be ideal. They might have higher than 50% hit rate, but I don't think it's 75% either.

Civ3man · Mar 22, 2005

What can I say I've also had my experiences with the RNG. That warrior that fends off all my veteran legionaries :mad:

that spearmen that just can't be taken out by my cav :mad:

the conan like barbarian that butchers my fortified elite spearmen :mad:

Sometimes you just need to take a deep breath and get on with it.

For my attacks I refuse to take any cats with me - seldom do I take cannons though. They are just to weak in PtW.
Insted I tend to use weak outdatet units as first attackers (e.g. horsemen) and then bring in in the big strong boys. Sometimes I even get lucky and the horseman kills the musket or the pukeman.
Armies are also a good choice for getting rid of pesky defenders that just refuse to die.

Brain · Mar 22, 2005

mryerse said:
I normally bombard the city with a catapult or anything that can bombard to weaked whatever their defense is before I attack. Sometimes I even have 4 or more units that can bombard in one turn and then two or three other units ready to attack to take over the city. Just be sure you don't lose your catapults or whatever you have, they can't defend themselves alone. Catapults seem to miss a lot so I think having at least 4 together is a must. I figure on 50% hit rate, and consider there might be two units in a city, you'll get maybe two hits. If there's two units with three life each, then you didn't even weaken it all that you can. 6 catapults would be ideal. They might have higher than 50% hit rate, but I don't think it's 75% either.

I find that catapults have a lower hit rate than that because sometimes they hit the city instead of the units defending the city. I think 2 catapults per hit point is a good rule of thumb. So if you're up against 2 veteran spearmen you need about 12 catapults to red-line the spearmen. I know that's a lot of catapults, but it's cheaper to build siege weapons that don't "wear down" in combat than to build a huge stack of offensive units to conquer several cities.

sorky · Mar 22, 2005

I have lost a knight, elite full hp, to a 2hp veteran warrior, grassland, not fortified, no river. The knight was *me*, I do this sometimes ^^ rename it and all

If he dies, it's game over... after the 2 HP warrior killed the knight, I've looked at the screen 3sec without moving, no reaction in front of this 3hp elite warrior... then *aerrrrghhhh*

(ctrl shift Q ^^)

Dachs · Mar 22, 2005

Fifteen archers attacking a three-hp veteran warrior, no rivers, both on plains. I lost 9 :mad:

of them before the warrior died. Needless to say, I burnt an offering to the RNG gods and subsequently took a size-7 city on a hill across a river, defended by spears, with the remainder of my archers.

It's all RNG.

I cant stand this.....

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