Does ideology come too late?

Xiao Xiong

Prince
Joined
Oct 15, 2009
Messages
480
Ideology is an interesting mechanic, but it seems to me it comes too late in the game. I am mostly talking about in a game play sense, but I think you could make a historic argument for it as well.

It seems to me that you should have to pick an ideology when you get astronomy, so that there are natural alliances formed perhaps even before you have met everybody.

Also...

Would be interesting if the city states had ideologies of their own that determined how expensive it is to ally them and how rapidly influence decayed.

Anyway by the time I get an ideology I usually already know whether I am going to win or lose. I am either nailing shut coffins then or desperately trying to figure a way to make a come back.
 
Astronomy would be ridiculously early to unlock ideologies. I think they come at the right time.

City-states perhaps should play a more dynamic role in ideologies though.
 
My only complaint is that some civs take forever to get to ideology. It would be better if say more than half the civs have picked one then the rest will be forced to choose
 
Astronomy? Columbus? 1492?

Oh right, I heard autocratic England invaded the democratic states of the holy roman empire back then. I agree, it would fit historically.
 
I believe the point of the ideologies coming late is to make the late game interesting. It has the ability to split up existing alliances and make old grudges less important to form new alliances
 
Ideology at Modern Era is too late?
 
Nope, I think the ideologies come at a very good point. They spice up the game when it begins to get stale and can shake up well-established diplomatic relations, which would be less impactful in much earlier eras when diplomatic relations are less well defined. I think mixing up ideologies with City States could be a good idea but I'm not sure how to implement it without making ideologies too impactful.
 
I just wish the AI would get ideologies earlier. It's like they don't even try. I see that they have coal, but they still don't get an ideology until they hit the Modern Era.
 
I would say that it could be moved back to the Industrial era at the most, but I think that it's fine where it is.

Er, ideologies are already in the industrial era, potentially immediately. Open industrial with factories, buy three factories, instant ideology upon entering industrial.
 
With a combination of good BPT, research agreements and great scientists it can actually be faster to get to the modern before 3 factories (except if you save up 3150 gold and hope you get coal instantly/soon).
I still haven't got an ideology from factories, I think going to the modern era is simply more convenient.
 
My only complaint is that some civs take forever to get to ideology. It would be better if say more than half the civs have picked one then the rest will be forced to choose

This.

But they come at the right time in the game.
 
Nope, I think the ideologies come at a very good point. They spice up the game when it begins to get stale and can shake up well-established diplomatic relations, which would be less impactful in much earlier eras when diplomatic relations are less well defined. I think mixing up ideologies with City States could be a good idea but I'm not sure how to implement it without making ideologies too impactful.

City states are already important enough thanks to the congress, you don't want to make them even better.
 
I think it's fine where it is. I'm not an amazing player by any stretch and I'm always into into Ideologies by/before turn 250. I've even been able to rush it around turn 200 by using the factory rush method. Any earlier could get ridiculous.
 
Er, ideologies are already in the industrial era, potentially immediately. Open industrial with factories, buy three factories, instant ideology upon entering industrial.

I meant directly at the start of the Industrial Era, without the added factories. Technically, you could do that, but you'd have to get lucky with coal placement and stuff.
 
With a combination of good BPT, research agreements and great scientists it can actually be faster to get to the modern before 3 factories (except if you save up 3150 gold and hope you get coal instantly/soon).
I still haven't got an ideology from factories, I think going to the modern era is simply more convenient.

Invest 3 policies in commerce, beeline industrialization, hope you have coal, burn a great engie on Big Ben, rushbuy 3 factories for 690 or something each. You can't get an ideology any faster than that but it's a gamble. And for fun, time it with the end of a golden age and burn all your great writers for fast tier 2 tenets.

Sparta vs Athens!

I hope you are joking.
 
I am not so sure about how city states would or should be affected my ideology. but here's one idea...

One real life example that comes to mind is how Georgia was a "city state" that was part of the USSR, but as that broke apart, the Georgians started leaning towards "freedom" and away from "order". Today Georgia is keen to be a part of NATO and wants to join the EU. You could translate this into maybe a city state quest "Tbilisi longs for Freedom, ally with this city state for added influence". Similar to the "pledge to protect" quest, but you actually have to invest in them first. the condition is that you must have the right idealogy for the right quest. Not sure if anyone would long for Autocracy, but maybe Order.
 
Top Bottom