Exactly how do I expand my territory??

So I get the insanely long research times, to force us to choose a path and basically specialize... but whats the deal with the high cost of settlers? I tried both a normal and epic game and I'm seeing really long build times. I can't remember the number of hammers needed, but I think its something like over 200.. a bit much or is it just me? Even after like 75 turns I still only had 1 city with a few warriors and some workers trying to improve things while my rivals already made a few cities and seemed to have everything under control (I checked the world builder)

any tips?

What difficulty are you using?

I play Epic speed games at Monarch difficulty. It doesn't take 200 turns to build that first Settler. Even if you start to build a Settler on the turn after you settle your capital city, it should take less unless your capital city has zero hammers/production.

I'd advise you to build a defender for your capital. By the time you have one, your pop. should increase and if you want to build a Settler it will be less turns.

The AI does expand quickly, but it should take them about the same amount of time to build that first Settler as you unless they are conquering other cities (barbarian, for example).

Again, I play at Monarch difficulty, so maybe you have one of the higher difficulties you are dealing with.

I play on noble/epic

when I play, I'm a bit apprehensive about building a settler so early on.. i try to build infrastructure first.. but perhaps I should change this style

It's good to build scout first and a warrior next. Research Mining first.

So you have 2 scouts to hang around the map and they get you bonus when they arrive tribal villages. If you are lucky enough, a settler or a worker pops up as a bonus.

After your first warrior built, build a worker. The city population would be increased. So it does not take so long and mining research will be done meanwhile. With the worker, build mines around, which increases your production profoundly in the early stage.

And then.. build a new settler.

As I understand it, there hasn't been much attention to balancing the game for any speed other than normal.

Also, as to what actions will most efficiently develop your early civ, this will primarily depend on what resources are in your first city's radius, starting techs and any special traits your civ might have. Its difficult to give advice without taking these factors into consideration and they are unique for every game. Getting that first settler out as quickly as possible is very important though unless you are playing someone like Charadon who can take his nearest neighbor instead.

My advice, don't be afraid to delay settling your first settler. Its okay to spend a couple turns finding a location that allows you to best exploit your starting tech and special traits. For instance, with Charadon, (i've been playin him recently) it might be ideal to plant your first settler someplace close to your nearest neighbor.

If you want territorial growth early on, choose creative, which is an advantage in the early game but is less useful later on.

mathkim said:

It's good to build scout first and a warrior next. Research Mining first.

So you have 2 scouts to hang around the map and they get you bonus when they arrive tribal villages. If you are lucky enough, a settler or a worker pops up as a bonus.

After your first warrior built, build a worker. The city population would be increased. So it does not take so long and mining research will be done meanwhile. With the worker, build mines around, which increases your production profoundly in the early stage.

And then.. build a new settler.

Click to expand...

That's assuming you have Crafting to start with or are lucky enough to hit it early with a goody hut.

I tend to go with Exploration first to build roads, followed by Agriculture to build farms. Of course I might go with Mining if I have Gold in my city cross.

I guess I am one of those who doesn't make building a Worker one of my first priorities for several reasons.

I can wait to improve the tiles usually without too much impact in terms of growth/production.

Often barb Warriors will be produced rather quickly (if you have barb cities around). If one comes right to your city it will not be easy to kill and will proceed to pillage your improvements. I would wait until I had at least two Warriors for defense before thinking about a Worker.

Workers stop growth while you are building them, so I wait until just before I have maxed out on happiness to build one.

Finally, the AI builds Workers immediately. I will often send my Scout to a nearby civ and if I see an AI Worker near their border and away from the capital, I will declare war, capture the Worker and send him back to work for me. The war is easily ended a few turns later and you get a free Worker!

FfH in general seems to have a much slower start, even in normal speed. Just look at how slow the techs come. Usually I don't even bother trying to make my first settler until my capitol is at least 3. I spend that time building warriors because I've started in locations have have an insanely high influx of barbs. Turn 75 doesn't seem TOO far off to just be getting new cities. Lets see, 9 turns to build a warrior. 2.5 warriors before hitting size 3 (depending on food, obviously). So that's turn 20 or so before you start building a settler. 20 to 40 turns to build a settler (20 if have expansive trait). That's nearly 60 turns right there. You could have 3 total cities by about turn 75.

Really though, it isn't a big deal. unless I am directly competing with another civ. In which case, I will just rush them and wipe them out as early as possible. Or try to cut their expansion by blocking a choke point and keeping borders closed.

If you want to get going faster, choose a leader with the expansive trait. You'll be churning out settlers faster than you can use them.

I always start by working high food tiles and queueing up 4 warriors if I have a few flood plains, 5 if I have a very small number or none. (Immortal/Deity player, but building a solid defense vs. FfH's barbs is smart even on noble.) Worker comes next. By the time he's queued, you should have agriculture, maybe another tech, and a city size of 5 or 6. Then, build a couple more warriors as your worker lays down some farms. Work those farms after the warriors finish, and the build time of settlers won't look so daunting.

Like Monkeyfinger 4-5 warriors are my first build, difference is I work high production tiles preferably a 3 hammer tile even if it means no growth. And then I'll pump out 3 more while the first 4-5 go find a city to take, there's usually one within striking range because I won't settle my settler until I find a target to settle down next to, which is also why I need to work high production tiles, because they might just build a warrior or goblin before I get mine out and that generally means game over, seeing as my starting warrior is usually still trying to catch up, that is if he survives the haul to wherever I plunked down my settler ;p My favorite city site is a riverside plains hill with a wine or two (a gold to boot makes the game almost too easy, on monarch at least)...the river connects up the target city that also has a wine or two (if this one also has gold I'll play out the early turns for fun, but usually quit shortly after because it quickly becomes a runaway game)...I've gotten that setup once, as Tasunke no less!

So, I'll usually have my second city within the first 60 turns, generally 2-3 warriors were lost in the assault but that still means 2-3 warriors as defenders for each city, I aim to have 4 for each city, until I have my second ring planned, 5 if I have an aggressive AI like Doviello, Clan, etc...next door. The target city usually has 3-4 pop while my capital only has 1-2, but once that's accomplished then I set out to grow and I'll focus on improvements between the first 2 cities to begin cultivating, as those will be relatively safe from pillaging as AI's would need to go past my cities to get to those tiles. If it's an AI, I'll usually have gotten a free worker out of the assault, if it's a barb just the city but no diplo hit either...

The only problem with this plan is every once in a while I don't get a full view of the target city, I miss that Mirror of Heaven it's working, or the Remnants or something...and then instead of taking the city I'm looking at Acheron's ever expanding borders...6 more culture (ie drama for the free bard!) per turn becomes my new priority to try and salvage my capital, although at least I have plenty of warriors that will get insane xp very quickly ;p

Also note that expansive civs build settlers at a very much faster speed. A basic city with a Forest Hill square (3 prod) puts a total of 10 production per turn towards a settler, which costs 220 hammers. 22 turns isn't too fast, but it isn't ridiculously slow either.

Also, bear in mind that fast expansion is not necessarily a boon if your starting city is reasonably well placed. Since you are going to build that first Settler with food, you may want to defer until your city is able to produce it in good quantity. Seafood is great for that, so Fishing sometimes might be the best tech to research.

Agreed. I recently played a game (deity, no less) as Lanum, and I turtled down, researching fishing and on to Massage from the creep... only built warriors and workboats. Warriors got very good exp from suiciding barbs, and when everything was in place, I sent out a small but efficient army and captured 4 barb cities (let them grow to size 2). Pretty cheap expansion, because I did not pay upkeep while I teched away. I guess aggressive AIs could have stolen "my" cities, but they were to busy to bother.

This was erebus map, not too much sea, but it was easy to gain a winning position by choosing to attack a semi-costal neighbour. Cultists + tsunami work swell, leave 1 defender alive so the enemy can reinforce his city a few times (hopeless mission, that) to bleed him dry.

Settle capital
fortify starting warrior in capital
warrior
warrior
warrior
workboat x number of sea resources in fat cross(if near sea resource)
OR
Worker after researching appropriate improvement techs if not near coast or no sea resouces
cheapest building avaliable (usualy elder council or monument or palisade)
THEN
settler
warrior
warrior
settler
warrior
warrior
settler

my first buildign in every new city is a palisade then monument regardless of location in my empire

then i set my capital on linking up those resources and cottage spamming, and at the same time whoring buildings while cherning out the occasional warrior.

I generally try to finish the worker at about the same time the improvement tech finishes. If I start with Agriculture, I'll often build the worker first.

If you are expansive, I highly recommend getting out a first settler early, since you can do so fairly cheaply, and double your growth rate.

malfuriouspete said:

I play on noble/epic

when I play, I'm a bit apprehensive about building a settler so early on.. i try to build infrastructure first.. but perhaps I should change this style

Click to expand...

Building a settler early would be viable if your starting location is relatively safe from enemy civs or raging barbarians; say you're on an island or peninsula. In fact, I think Greyfox currently has an AAR where he does that (and he's playing at Immortal, normal speed). I'm not a fan of the idea myself.

I play at the Immortal/Deity level and there are too many barbarians and bloodthirsty civs to neglect immediately building up 4-5 warriors. I'll usually try for a settler first before improving my city lands because of the pillaging barbarians - that's usually turn 60-80 before my second city is founded.

I'll adjust my early research if I'm hard-pressed by some bloodthirsty civ who's already got axemen, but usually I'll go for the early growth and economic techs that lead to cottages and farms. If I do though, I'll invest in workers as possible. It's unlikely I'll have the luxury of timing their arrival though. I'd rather have them later then early with little to do and warriors desperately needed.

If you want room for easy expansion and not too much hassle early on, I recomend playing with the number of AIs. The more there are on the map (relatively to map size), the sooner you'll get involved in a war/multiple wars, the less room/resource you'll get without having to play warmonger.

So for an easy start, put a bit less AIs than default (just close some slots in custom game).

malfuriouspete said:

So I get the insanely long research times, to force us to choose a path and basically specialize... but whats the deal with the high cost of settlers? I tried both a normal and epic game and I'm seeing really long build times. I can't remember the number of hammers needed, but I think its something like over 200.. a bit much or is it just me? Even after like 75 turns I still only had 1 city with a few warriors and some workers trying to improve things while my rivals already made a few cities and seemed to have everything under control (I checked the world builder)

any tips?

Click to expand...

Am I the only one that feel that research should be even more expensive? Like.. doubled? At least for the human player, because I research everything way too fast, leaving the AI in the dust, and get techs so fast that I don't really have any time to make use of every tech I -do- get.

Luckmann said:

Am I the only one that feel that research should be even more expensive? Like.. doubled? At least for the human player, because I research everything way too fast, leaving the AI in the dust, and get techs so fast that I don't really have any time to make use of every tech I -do- get.

Click to expand...

Play higher?

Methuselah said:

Play higher?

Click to expand...

I'm playing on, like, Monarch already. Yes, I realize I need to go higher, but when I do so much else of the game changes and I get raep't by Barbarians and whatnot. It's really the discrepancy between me and the AI that annoys me the most.