Revolutions

Thank you for the detailed report

From my test games, I agree to most of your points.

I'll release the second alpha *soon* (maybe tomorrow) to get this kind of feedback from the first balance.

But unless I can code some of the policies effect, there will still be more separatist and higher chance of revolt than I plan to have in final version.

Just a precision about gameplay, happiness > 10 won't prevent separatist to appears, but it will calm them.

The stability screen in the new version will show the progression of stability/unstability from each culture groups more precisly.

About the rebels unit, the pikeman and the others are placeholder, the rebels will have weak units with a bonus only against city, but killing them will remove some population from the city that has spawned them. I plan to add a counter to those units to make them "return home peacefully" 3-5 turns after spawning.

Thanks for the title change

Here's the final stability infos screen (click for full screen):


I'm doing a small update to the Cultural Diffusion component, and the alpha v2 will be ready.

Here's alpha v2.

I'm afraid I forgot to list the change from v1, so here a quick summary :

- Balance unrest growth, your empire should be more stable.
- A city can enter revolution (flip to rebel side). I plan to develop such event so it may spread to nearby cities.
- Detailed stability screen (see above post)

You'll need :

- Civ5 updated to latest patch
- Revolution v.2
- Cultural Diffusion v.11
- Custom Advanced Setup Screen (any version)

TIA for playing and reports

I started a game with the new version and I like the changes so far. The info window is fantastic! I founded a city some distance away from my capital and it has been generating quite a bit of separatist culture (it is at about 55% separatist atm I believe) but I haven't had any revolts yet. I will try to finish the game and give you some more feedback but I got distracted by an intense game on the Huge Earth map in your YnAEMP .

I did have one crash but I wasn't able to reproduce it from the previous autosave so I'm not sure what caused it. It happened between turns and I was afk so I didn't see what was happening. If I get another one I will save the logs for you. It may have been hardware-related though as I have had more crashes recently in general (although I have been playing a lot more recently as well which might explain it).

Great idea!

At the moment I cannot manage to mantain my cities. Even the closest to my capital are destined to revolt at some point...I can only delay that moment

Maybe the 100 points standard revolution-iveness (?) shoud be scaled down?

Bonci said:

Great idea!

At the moment I cannot manage to mantain my cities. Even the closest to my capital are destined to revolt at some point...I can only delay that moment

Maybe the 100 points standard revolution-iveness (?) shoud be scaled down?

Click to expand...

Your using v.2 ? What's the main cause of instability in your cities ? Your own culture group because of unhappiness ? another civ CG ? Separatist ?

You can edit the define file to raise the value of revolt/rebellion/revolution thresholds in RevolutionDefines.lua :

But I would like your feedback on why your cities have gone unstable with current values first

mainly because of separatist influence...the relation goes at minimum very fast.

yes I'm using v.2

Success! After the Chinese near capitulation, happiness went to -18. 1 of the newly acquired cities spawned rebel pikeman a few times, and then converted itself into a city-state after some turns. That city has build 3 buildings so far, but continues to go into disorder, and has even spawned 2 musketmen.

I did try to get the Chinese to implode by pillaging, and cutting the road to the capital, but didn't see any effect.

I'm playing on a huge map with Uomo Universalis, and Foreign Trade also.

One thing that could be cool in your Dynamic History Mod, would be entities like tribes that cover the land since the start, a la Colonization.

Those tribes would be culturally influencable by the civilizations, so you could choose to emphasis culture early in order to have chip converts all around you.

One last thing : I see as absolutely necassary in such a mod to allow to spread according to the land shape. For example, grasslands and plains would have a high culture conductivity, hills a lower, forest and jungle a low, mountains and seas/oceans (before the discovery respectively of sea/ocean travel) nearly insulating. Roads could bring culture around 10 tiles away. (very conductive) Railroads later, air travel and telegraph, would bring the earth in the modern era where all cultures tend to mix. Of course frontiers would highly break culture spreading, the more if there is no right of passage / trade. The interesting bit in the biginning of the game would be that tribes would not count as true civilizations therefore have no frontiers, what could be good to convert them. (roads powah!)

Ultimately, tribes could convert into true civs, and ideally the player would start as a tribe.

I have a tribe unit defined (mix of settler, spearman, archer, warrior graphic model), that roams the land at game start, and "mark" it with it's own culture, it can't attack but is able to defend itself.

I want to allow interaction between civs & tribes, but haven't really worked on that yet.

The culture diffusion mod already take account of terrain type, only hills and forest have no effect on it yet, but it can be added. Currently it spread faster along rail, roads and river, and slower across river, desert, snow, swamp, tundra, mountain (bonus and penalties are not the same, mountain is higher penalty, road/rail higher bonus)

Sea/Ocean don't spread culture, but a Migration mechanism will be included for transcontinental culture spreading (with corresponding techs of course)

Culture will also spread from trade routes (influencing both side of the trade route)

Some civ should start as tribe, and even stay tribe all the game, others will settle and create city.

Tribal civs will gain tech by diffusion only.

A mechanism to allow playing a tribe at start (or all the game) is something I'm pondering, yes.

And thanks for the input

@primordial stew, thx for feedback, I must now work on something to handle the revolting city (spreading a revolution, then chose to declare Independence, join another civs, etc..)

Oh well ok. Sounds great.

I've just tried your revolution mod, but it was in Settler difficulty so couldn't really try it out, other way I activated the option "grab land with military" and what I must say is that it's very great.

Gedemon said:

A mechanism to allow playing a tribe at start (or all the game) is something I'm pondering, yes.

Click to expand...

I think there is a rude way to implement tribes with ability of diplomacy. You can make a unique unit, which changes settler and which cannot found a new city. This will keep them in the diplomacy menu and restrict them from making a city. Then you could implement something similar to Mongol scenario in CIV 4 Warlords. If you haven't played it then I can explain it in next post. ^^ cheers

magzhi said:

I think there is a rude way to implement tribes with ability of diplomacy. You can make a unique unit, which changes settler and which cannot found a new city. This will keep them in the diplomacy menu and restrict them from making a city. Then you could implement something similar to Mongol scenario in CIV 4 Warlords. If you haven't played it then I can explain it in next post. ^^ cheers

Click to expand...

A tribe civ would start with a tribe unit that is not able to found a city on it's own, yes.

Perhaps it's time that I open the YnADH thread, but it's still weeks (or months) from beta version I fear...

Are CS supposed to be subject to revolts? It's sort of neat, just witnessed it tonight.

Poor Belgium was aligned with Persia when they DOWed me. I promptly wiped out the Belgian army, and now there are 3 Odo(?) musketmen surrounding the city.

Another thing you might check is if CSs you are at war with (via rebellion in my case) count for foreign trade :/

Frontiers should be great obstacles to culture diffusion. The things being that at start cities should be an organic and egemonic carpet without frontiers, influencing each other greatly. Countries would emerge from them, and the cities left would be city states.

Great Mod
I was looking for this kind of mod and man its really awesome.
Also iam playing with a lot of mods (CCTP, Emigration, Cultural Capital, , Tree growth...), and it looks like all is running perfect. Just played a short game to test this mod, and well i love it , well done sir

Ok back again. So i started my second game, and all runs well until i hit turn 145, i got a ctd. So i start playing on Ds9 and reload some turns before, and got a ctd again. Well maybe some of the other mods are not compatible, i dont know. If you wish i can upload the log files of my game.
I really like this mod its a very cool addition

primordial stew said:

Are CS supposed to be subject to revolts? It's sort of neat, just witnessed it tonight.

Poor Belgium was aligned with Persia when they DOWed me. I promptly wiped out the Belgian army, and now there are 3 Odo(?) musketmen surrounding the city.

Another thing you might check is if CSs you are at war with (via rebellion in my case) count for foreign trade :/

Click to expand...

Yes, CS are also subject to revolt when under the cultural influence of a neighbor civ with higher happiness than them...

CS or civs you're at war with should not count for foreign trade, do you have some case in your economic overview ?

Gilgamesch said:

Ok back again. So i started my second game, and all runs well until i hit turn 145, i got a ctd. So i start playing on Ds9 and reload some turns before, and got a ctd again. Well maybe some of the other mods are not compatible, i dont know. If you wish i can upload the log files of my game.
I really like this mod its a very cool addition

Click to expand...

I add no crashes in my test game, using CiVUP, CivWillard, and some others, and I've tried ti design it to be as compatible as possible (not overriding any vanilla files for example), but of course I can't assure perfect compatibility. Still, incompatibility should result in strange behavior in calculation or display, not plain crash...

So, if it's not a random crash (and your report suggest it's effectively not random if it crash again after reloading), then yes, I'll like the lua log, at least to see if revolution output something strange, TIA

Great work, Gedemon!
I have idea of revolutions mod too but have no time for it.
So I wish you'll have enough time to carry out this great project.
I'm about to try you mod.

Few questions on mechanics:
If i have 10 happiness, separatist relation wont spoil?
If i have a road, no separatist culture will be produced?
How is it determined what portion of my culture is turned into a separatist culture?

thanks

i also have some another policy effects suggestions:
Commerce - small positive RP change for all groups in cities connected to the trade network.

and mechanic suggestions:
unrest can lower city's hit points so it would much easier for rebels (or possibly itnervents) to take it.

also, we could combine your mod with my emigration 4 mod thats in testing phase now. in the new version citizens migrate to more happy and wealthy counries even if their country is happy too.

emigrants could bring their culture to the new place, watering down other groups. say we have 2 cultures in source city, 24% and 76% - this percentage can be used to determine the culture of emigrant. then, move this emigrant citizen to a new place.
source city get new culture ratio. lets say the emigrant's culture was of the major group (76%) and there were 9 citizens in the city.
new percentage for the major group will be (9*0.76-1)/8=73%,
for the minor group = 100 - 73 = 27%.
if there were more than 2 groups, say 76%, 10% and 14%,
new values for the latter two will be 27 / 24 * 10 = 11.25 and 27 / 24 * 14 = 15.75
for the destination city calculations will be pretty the same but reversed.
if you use absolute values for culture representation, things are even easier.
1. determine what culture group does an emigrant belong to
2. substract x = Max(1/citySize*totalCityCulture, maxCulturePerEmigrant) from that culture value in the source city, and add this x value to a destination city.
lets say there is 48 cultureA and 152 cultureB in the source city (24:76%), population size is 9. determine culture affinity of the emigrant: 24% its cultureA, 76% its cultureB. let it be cultureB.
determine x = Max(1/9*(48+152), 100) = 22.
Substract it from home cultureB, its value now is 130, and presentation is 130/(48+130) = 73%
Then add cultureB CG with 22 culture points to a destination city.