DOW penalties because of defensive pact

Sometimes when I have a defensive pact I get penalties with multiple leaders, either by having declared war on them. Or with other leaders because I declared war on their friend, or your own friend. But I dont have a choice of declaring war, because of the defensive pact. I know a defensive pact should be considered well before accepting, but sometimes you were really just screwed because of an untrustworthy partner. Do you guys feel like the penalty is pretty high too, I feel the penalties should be restricted too the leader you really declared war on. Or am I just a sore loser?


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I have over 2000 hours of game play and I've never signed a defensive pact. I don't trust the AI when I'm weak and I don't need them when I'm strong. It is kind of a shame - it would be fun having a more complex diplomatic situation.

normally a DP is used for when you are totally sure that a dbag AI, that is also a victory threat, is going to DoW some pathetic AI that you've been keeping alive (essentially). the way i look at it is that once the powerful dbag AI stupidly DoW's your DP'ed weakling AI, you won't suffer the same penalties.

although by this point in the game, it's just me wanting to DoW the dbag powerful AI w/o directing DoWing it.

any way you put it, DP's are not used often. if this AI is dumb enough to pop off the DP, i normally just that war ALL THE WAY and do not declare any deal.

oh right, a DP is also a good way to keep a one-city dead AI alive just for you to keep things mixed up in your area. case in point is if Shaka was extincted some time ago, yet you get into a later war and lib his old capitol from Russia, you are now Shaka's Liberator and he will immediately sign a DP if you offer it. it has its uses.. or i should speak for myself in saying that I find uses in it.

The few times I've signed a Defense pact is because I was sure that I was about to be DOWed upon by an AI and wanted another AI to somewhat distract him to make the war a bit easier.

It's best to ensure that any civ you are considering signing a Defense Pact with is NOT in poor relations with one of the civs you have a DOF with.

Imho, a defensive pact could be given to an AI civ that no longer has a capital and is willing to help me out in wiping out the other capitals. The AIs don't do defensive pacts because they become very greedy when they notice you are a warmonger. Besides, DPs sometimes ruin your reputation further sometimes because you can't always backstab.