Which modmod should I play first?

Which is your favourite modmod?

  • Fall Further

    Votes: 7 13.0%
  • Rise From Erebus (FF+)

    Votes: 15 27.8%
  • Orbis

    Votes: 8 14.8%
  • Wildmana

    Votes: 24 44.4%

  • Total voters
    54

Paul Saunders

Warlord
Joined
Dec 13, 2001
Messages
105
Location
Wales, UK
Although I've been playing FFH on and off for a long time, I've only just found out about the various modmods for it. So right now I could really do with some advice.

I've downloaded Fall Further, Rise From Erebus, Orbis and Wildmana, which seem to be the main ones, but I can't decide which to play first.

I've read a few threads about the differences and as far as I can tell, FF is much like FFH but with more stuff, and RiFE is like FF with even more stuff. Orbis is "something else" with a different tech tree and a bit more stuff, while Wildmana seems to be quite similar to FFH but with vastly improved AI. Have I got that right?

So where do I start? Obviously I'd like to play them all, but what do you think I should play first, and why?

Is FF redundant because of RiFE? If I play RiFE can I just ignore FF, or does FF have some unique characteristics that aren't included in RiFE that make it worth playing as well?

My preference is probably to play the one with the most "stuff", which I think is RiFE, but I also enjoy different game mechanics and I'd certainly prefer a more intelligent AI. Maybe RiFE would be easier to start with because it's more similar to FFH? Then Orbis last because it's the most different?

One new feature that really interests me is the climate mechanic, I particularly enjoy interesting terrain. Playing on a good map is very important to me. Are there any suitable map scripts that you'd recommend for use with these mods?

I also really like the sound of culture changing hands as a result of battle. I can't remember which one/s have that. Is it in Wildmana? Or any of the others?

If anyone can help to clarify the main differences further I'd really appreciate it. I've been reading so much about them now I'm really confused!

As I say, I want to play them all eventually, but I have to start somewhere, so which will it be? Can anyone help me to make up my mind?

Paul
 
Although I've been playing FFH on and off for a long time, I've only just found out about the various modmods for it. So right now I could really do with some advice.

I've downloaded Fall Further, Rise From Erebus, Orbis and Wildmana, which seem to be the main ones, but I can't decide which to play first.

I've read a few threads about the differences and as far as I can tell, FF is much like FFH but with more stuff, and RiFE is like FF with even more stuff. Orbis is "something else" with a different tech tree and a bit more stuff, while Wildmana seems to be quite similar to FFH but with vastly improved AI. Have I got that right?

So where do I start? Obviously I'd like to play them all, but what do you think I should play first, and why?

Is FF redundant because of RiFE? If I play RiFE can I just ignore FF, or does FF have some unique characteristics that aren't included in RiFE that make it worth playing as well?

My preference is probably to play the one with the most "stuff", which I think is RiFE, but I also enjoy different game mechanics and I'd certainly prefer a more intelligent AI. Maybe RiFE would be easier to start with because it's more similar to FFH? Then Orbis last because it's the most different?

One new feature that really interests me is the climate mechanic, I particularly enjoy interesting terrain. Playing on a good map is very important to me. Are there any suitable map scripts that you'd recommend for use with these mods?

I also really like the sound of culture changing hands as a result of battle. I can't remember which one/s have that. Is it in Wildmana? Or any of the others?

If anyone can help to clarify the main differences further I'd really appreciate it. I've been reading so much about them now I'm really confused!

As I say, I want to play them all eventually, but I have to start somewhere, so which will it be? Can anyone help me to make up my mind?

Paul

Wild Mana is the only one to feature Influence Driven War atm.

RifE currently contains everything FF does, though we've made our own tweaks obviously. The FF team is working on some AMAZING stuff behind the scenes, though.

This thread may help a little bit, I'll post a more detailed breakdown (which may or may not be wrong, I'm not completely up to date on Wild Mana or Orbis atm) later on when I have some time. ;)

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=338149
 
Wild Mana is the only one to feature Influence Driven War atm.

Pity.

RifE currently contains everything FF does, though we've made our own tweaks obviously. The FF team is working on some AMAZING stuff behind the scenes, though.

Will they be added to RifE in due course?

This thread may help a little bit, I'll post a more detailed breakdown (which may or may not be wrong, I'm not completely up to date on Wild Mana or Orbis atm) later on when I have some time. ;)

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=338149

Great, thanks.
 
I chose Wildmana for two reasons; one - its my current favorite, although FF (pre RiFE) held that spot for a long time. Two - it's a bit easier for those new to modmods. Most of the additions are either gameoptions or behind the scenes.
 
Rife is amazing and I definitely recommend it. Although if you do play it, play with the "No Lairs" game option because the early game is a monster without it. :lol:
 
I chose Wildmana for two reasons; one - its my current favorite, although FF (pre RiFE) held that spot for a long time. Two - it's a bit easier for those new to modmods. Most of the additions are either gameoptions or behind the scenes.

So what is so great about it? I've been playing mostly RifE and I've had a quick try of the others. Wildmana seems pretty sparse in terms of features. I realise the AI is supposed to be a lot better but there seems to be so many things "missing" after playing RifE. In particular I miss the new forts, which are really cool.

Fall Further also seems like RifE with less stuff, again missing the forts, Dwarven Mines etc, so I can't think of any reason to play that right now, unless I decide that I want to play a game without the new forts (could that be made an option to switch on and off?).

I found Orbis very interesting due to the new tech tree (and some cool concepts like not needing a building like an archery to build an archer, but getting extra experience if you do build it, which is not unlike the original civ concept). It also has the cool new forts but handled in a slightly different way. Unfortunately I've been getting some strange bugs, like a warrior disappearing (but the tiles around where it was still remaining visible) and a few instances of hunters appearing on the wrong tiles next turn. This started to mess up my game so I gave up. I thought Orbis was supposed to be the least buggy?
 
Rife is amazing and I definitely recommend it.

I agree, that's the one I've been playing most. I particulary like the new Malakim features, my favourite civ at the moment, never bothered playing them before. The changing climate is great too.

Although if you do play it, play with the "No Lairs" game option because the early game is a monster without it. :lol:

So I've noticed! The animals do seem rather excessive in RifE! Okay a bit later once you've built up your military a bit, but the barbs are way too dangerous in the early game IMO. In one game two AI civs were wiped out by barbs by turn 16.

Speaking of difficulty, how does flexible difficulty work exactly? I know what it's supposed to do, but it doesn't seem to be having any effect. I started a game on noble and the difficulty steadily increased until it reached Deity and now it's stuck there. But the game doesn't seem to be any harder. What's going on? (Or not?) I thought that you had less happy citizens and less health on harder levels, but they're still at noble levels. Research, production, city growth etc. don't seem to have slowed and the other civs can't keep up with me. Is this option actually working or not?
 
Won't be in the next version. ;)

What won't? The lairs or the option to turn them off?

Also, not getting at you specifically, but with all these modmods the documentation of many of the new features is often sparse to non-existent. I realise it's time consuming to update the civilopedia, but I'm not expecting rich detailed descriptions of everything. Just a short sentence or two about how some of these critical concepts work would be very helpful.

For example, how do I get rid of haunted lands? I think I read somewhere that a Life I spell would do it, but it doesn't, at least I can't get it to work. Having said that, these haunted lands don't seem to do me much harm. My units often walk through them with impunity and my workers are quite happy to build things in haunted tiles. What are they actually supposed to do, apart from helping creepers to spawn in them?

I imagine all or most of the answers are to be found somewhere in these forums, but it can take a lot of time searching for them, and even then I often can't find the answer I'm looking for. So most of the time I figure I may as well waste my time playing the game rather than wasting it trying to find out how to play it. :confused:
 
What won't? The lairs or the option to turn them off?

Also, not getting at you specifically, but with all these modmods the documentation of many of the new features is often sparse to non-existent. I realise it's time consuming to update the civilopedia, but I'm not expecting rich detailed descriptions of everything. Just a short sentence or two about how some of these critical concepts work would be very helpful.

For example, how do I get rid of haunted lands? I think I read somewhere that a Life I spell would do it, but it doesn't, at least I can't get it to work. Having said that, these haunted lands don't seem to do me much harm. My units often walk through them with impunity and my workers are quite happy to build things in haunted tiles. What are they actually supposed to do, apart from helping creepers to spawn in them?

I imagine all or most of the answers are to be found somewhere in these forums, but it can take a lot of time searching for them, and even then I often can't find the answer I'm looking for. So most of the time I figure I may as well waste my time playing the game rather than wasting it trying to find out how to play it. :confused:

All I meant was the animals/barbs won't be so dangerous in the early game for the next version. Or rather, they'll be MORE dangerous, but they won't be wiping out civs. Any more details will stay hidden for now. :lol:

Documentation is something I definitely want to work on this time. Spent quite a bit of time rewriting functions so that I could display the 'Spawn Chance' for those civs that use that function. Scion and Grigori already had it, now so do Archos, Jotnar, Doviello, and Sheaim.

Haunted Lands can have several bad effects if a unit ends his turn in them, like an Addiction which weakens them, or even being made undead. It can be removed with Dispel magic; The confusion about Sanctify is because that's what Orbis uses. ;)
 
So what is so great about it? I've been playing mostly RifE and I've had a quick try of the others. Wildmana seems pretty sparse in terms of features. I realise the AI is supposed to be a lot better but there seems to be so many things "missing" after playing RifE. In particular I miss the new forts, which are really cool.

Fall Further also seems like RifE with less stuff, again missing the forts, Dwarven Mines etc, so I can't think of any reason to play that right now, unless I decide that I want to play a game without the new forts (could that be made an option to switch on and off?).

I found Orbis very interesting due to the new tech tree (and some cool concepts like not needing a building like an archery to build an archer, but getting extra experience if you do build it, which is not unlike the original civ concept). It also has the cool new forts but handled in a slightly different way. Unfortunately I've been getting some strange bugs, like a warrior disappearing (but the tiles around where it was still remaining visible) and a few instances of hunters appearing on the wrong tiles next turn. This started to mess up my game so I gave up. I thought Orbis was supposed to be the least buggy?

Well, if you want sheer volume of new content, RiFE is your best bet. I haven't played it since the FF+ days, but it definitely has the best toys. I like Wildmana because it has the best balance between new content, tweaked old content, and performance. There's a reason Xienwolf and Vehem abandoned the old FF dll, because it is groaning under the weight of features it was not designed to support.
 
I like Wildmana because it has the best balance between new content, tweaked old content, and performance.

'xactly. less processing work for PCs also. I dislike waiting 2-4 min per turn at the endgame: the case with "rich" mods.
 
Documentation is something I definitely want to work on this time.

Haunted Lands can have several bad effects if a unit ends his turn in them, like an Addiction which weakens them, or even being made undead. It can be removed with Dispel magic; The confusion about Sanctify is because that's what Orbis uses. ;)

Thanks for the info. I also just discovered that cutting down a forest removes haunted lands. Not sure if that's supposed to happen.

Any comments on the Flexible Difficulty issue? Is it actually working? Or am I just so far ahead in this game that being on Deity doesn't make any difference? Does anyone have a link to where I can read about exactly how it works? I can't find anything on the forums.
 
Thanks for the info. I also just discovered that cutting down a forest removes haunted lands. Not sure if that's supposed to happen.

Any comments on the Flexible Difficulty issue? Is it actually working? Or am I just so far ahead in this game that being on Deity doesn't make any difference? Does anyone have a link to where I can read about exactly how it works? I can't find anything on the forums.

Chopping it works just fine. ;)

Higher Difficulties don't actually affect the HUMAN player much (lower bonuses against barbs; That's about it), but it DOES affect the AI. They get :hammers: boosts, bonuses against barbs, etc. You're likely just far enough ahead at this point that it doesn't matter much.
 
Any comments on the Flexible Difficulty issue? Is it actually working? Or am I just so far ahead in this game that being on Deity doesn't make any difference? Does anyone have a link to where I can read about exactly how it works? I can't find anything on the forums.

The major boost of the higher difficulty levels is that the AI starts with workers and even a settler. The other bonuses are nice for the AI, especially the XP boost, but they just can't compare to having two cities and a worker building improvements from turn 1.

This means that the flexible difficulty only really matters during wars with the AI and the buildup to those wars where the XP bonus is given out.
 
The major boost of the higher difficulty levels is that the AI starts with workers and even a settler. The other bonuses are nice for the AI, especially the XP boost, but they just can't compare to having two cities and a worker building improvements from turn 1.

So I should have started at a higher level than Noble then, maybe Monarch? What's the lowest difficulty level where the AI starts with two cities?
 
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