RB3 - Daring Deity with Ottomans

Wow looks like we're sitting pretty. We're not too far off from the #1 spot in all the important categories. For a deity game, this early on, that's... not right.

It's also incredibly annoying that our open borders won't expire with Siam. When I signed that, I did so assuming that it would expire before we came into close contact. It should have but... now they're free to roam our territory, block our workers, and settle our back lands. Some people say that open borders also makes it more likely for them to attack, because they can see that their military is bigger than yours. No one knows for sure, because no one really knows anything about the diplomacy system.

I'm glad you took only Cumae. That city is in the perfect location to seal in the French. Maybe I can get one more in the west, too, to really seal him in and protect our territory.

Looks like Siam will declare on you with all those people on the border.

Regarding cultural city states. I do not think they are overpowered since they for you cost 8 gpt and give you 8 culture per turn. It is not radical compared to culture buildings.

If the AI used it's money to buy city states instead of buying useless luxuries diety would propably be much harder. AI should be much more active at making research agreements as well. Given that they almost always agree to them it does not make sense they are not constanly having them with every other player all the time.

Why did they even code that the AI will buy luxuries for 300? Seems like it should be dependent on home much happiness they have and how much a golden age cost compared to how much a golden age would be worth.

Folket said:

Looks like Siam will declare on you with all those people on the border.

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Yeah... I think I'm going to prioritize improving our defensive situation. Hopefully they'll stay friendly with us for a while, but if they don't it would not be easy fighting against the #1 AI civ when they have such a powerful UU (the elephant).

pi-r8 said:

Some people say that open borders also makes it more likely for them to attack, because they can see that their military is bigger than yours. No one knows for sure, because no one really knows anything about the diplomacy system.

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Well, I have had games where the AI on another continent are mocking my weak military ("surprised you have not succumbed to barbarians" or the like) when they have had no units that could evaluate my strength. Maybe they know your military strength by telepathy, OB or not?

dV

Perhaps the AI can look at the demographics screen to? I find that the AI will taunt you when they turn hostile. It is a warning to the player that the AI might declare on them soon. Propably they turn hostile and a taunt is generated based on the civilization and/or weighted by some standing in statistics.

Folket said:

Looks like Siam will declare on you with all those people on the border.

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No kidding.

I guess we should sell them as much stuff per turn as possible right now.

Sullla said:

Plus, this was the horse unit that was already Shock promoted, and we certainly don't need Shock II to kill units in open terrain.) I think I can probably take Neapolis next turn.

By the way, I just noticed that we still have Open Borders with Siam, and they are moving units in our territory. Uh, we signed that deal with them on Turn 36. It expired many turns ago, yet they still have Open Borders with us, and I can't see any way to cancel that deal. Geez, this game is amazingly buggy right now. There's no way to remove Siam from our territory right now short of declaring war...

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Shock promotions are very handy for walzing through cities though; Even if they don't show up in the UI both shock and blitz apply when attacking cities built on the appropriate terrain.

As for Siam, be careful when you declare. I've seen reports of Open Borders staying on even in wartime, giving your opponent the policy-bonus for fighting in friendly lands inside your borders...

Lurker comment:

Hello there,

I've been reading these forums for quite a while bu just registered for this thread. It is a great read, great game but depressing for the CiV itself. First of all you are doing such a good job it is disgusting. I think the 'Borg' analogy captures everything that is wrong about this game.

Anyway I just wanted to say that while pouring money into city states don't forget that chivalry is up and you are due for horsemen upgrading. You'll need the cash.

secondbest said:

Hello there,

I've been reading these forums for quite a while bu just registered for this thread. It is a great read, great game but depressing for the CiV itself. First of all you are doing such a good job it is disgusting. I think the 'Borg' analogy captures everything that is wrong about this game.

Anyway I just wanted to say that while pouring money into city states don't forget that chivalry is up and you are due for horsemen upgrading. You'll need the cash.

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Yeah, I'd definitely pay more heed to the army. You've got Siam now, which can be somewhat countered with Pikemen+GG (since AI doesn't use its own GG - another "disgusting" feature) and cats, then later on France. From my experience on Deity Nappy gets to his Musketeers (20 strength!) quickly and LOVES to mass build them.
So try to amass more gold for emergency army rushbuy.

Btw isn't it hilarious that Monty, once a great PITA (Pain In The Arse), that normally is #1 on the kill list now looks like a peaceful lamb with all these lunatic AIs? It's somehow sad to see him blending into the crowd of other psychos...

Been lurking for a few days but had to catch up between other activities. Finally reached "current events" and thoroughly enjoying the read.

Great reporting as usual Sulla.

I find it ironic that we're complaining about the computer being willing to pay 300 gold for luxuries, and here we are paying the computer 300 gold for luxuries

I think we need to start preparing for elephants right away, those things are medieval tanks (insert spearman joke here) and even give Cavalry a hard time. All the signs indicate that Siam is preparing to attack us: hostile attitude, scouting our lands, and gathering troops on our border. Just hope that France doesn't join in too, deity AI France can have UU muskets around 0AD... in the unlikely event that France decides to propose a joint attack on Siam, we should accept. I think it is still very possible to lose this game.

Since Istanbul appears to be designated as our main military city for now, we should rush a barracks there before the catapult comes out imo.

There is a very irritating bug with agreements not cancelling properly, I think it happens when you sign OB and another trade with a civ on the same turn, sometimes one of the deals will disappear from the screen but not actually cancel, causing you to lose a resource or in this case grant OB indefinitely

did we not take Rome's 42gpt instead of the cities? Or we could have taken the cities and sold/gifted them to Egypt. Missed an opportunity to abuse the AI some more there!

uberfish said:

I find it ironic that we're complaining about the computer being willing to pay 300 gold for luxuries, and here we are paying the computer 300 gold for luxuries

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It's funny all right. But it's only good because we already own all the relevant city states, and because we need the happiness right now, and because it was also going to give us about $300 worth of free CS influence. The main reason the AI is dumb to pay for resources is because it could be paying for city states instead, and get the resources from them for free. The other reason it's dumb is that the AI doesn't actually need all those resources!

Lurker Comment:

Sullla said:

... One note on promotions: I've generally found myself promoting along the Drill line (rough terrain combat bonus) because units on flatland already get the -33% penalty and are extremely easy to kill. You don't need more combat strength to wipe them out, you need strength when fighting in the hills. It's really rather depressing, since taking Drill on nearly every unit seems to produce very good results. ...

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I have found, in general, Shock is good for any unit that is likely to have to stop in flat land or that do not recieve defence bonuses (ie horses). I tend to think of it as a 3-to-1 set. If I have 4 of the same type of units I want 3 to have Drill and 1 to have Shock. I have seen on Immortal a Shock III unit in grassland (no river) hold his own when surprised.

I tend to use the Shock guys in 2 situations. 1) As scouts on the new contenents if I feel there will be *clears throat* hostilities. And 2) as the first melee attack on cities in flatland.

I get Drill for Aggression, Shock for Defense.

Great game, guys! If you haven't done so already, you might want to activate offline mode for Civ5. The imminent patch will probably break saves...

SevenSpirits said:

The other reason it's dumb is that the AI doesn't actually need all those resources!

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Apparently it does on lower difficulty levels. I think it would be unreasonable for the player's excess resources to suddenly become worthless for trade purposes just because the AI gets extra happiness bonuses on immortal/deity, the resource trading is clearly an intended part of the game.

Sullla said:

One note on promotions: I've generally found myself promoting along the Drill line (rough terrain combat bonus) because units on flatland already get the -33% penalty and are extremely easy to kill.

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Easy to kill, if they don't happen to be hoplites

Well we're at war again. Anyone want to make a bet on who our opponent is this time?

Is there a reason not to raze every AI city you capture? Settlers are cheap with your SP path, while a Courthouse is expensive in both hammers and maintenance. Along that line, why not just take Rome's junk cities and raze them? Saves you some trouble later...

@pi-r8 - Siam is the obvious choice so I'll go with Monty.

Darrell

darrelljs said:

Is there a reason not to raze every AI city you capture? Settlers are cheap with your SP path, while a Courthouse is expensive in both hammers and maintenance. Along that line, why not just take Rome's junk cities and raze them? Saves you some trouble later...

@pi-r8 - Siam is the obvious choice so I'll go with Monty.

Darrell

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We can still raze them later on. They are useful initially to flag the land until we get around to settle it. They also boost our science so there's no point razing them as long as we have decent land to put our settlers on and no golden age that would allow us to buffer the unhappiness better.

I'm pretty sure we were attacked by Siam. Could be more, though, as Ram could've signed agreements.