A bit dissapointed!

:mad: after seeing this thread, my disappointment even increased. well, now i am sure civ5 will be much simpler than civ4. the "simple game rules" approaches we heard about is most probably decided for an expectation on increased sales.

why did i call civ5 simple? well, it really seems like a step back from civ4 in means of parameters. It seems more like a board game (according to the limited info we have) for 11yo boyz. what simple new rules we have?
Let's see.

1 leader per civ
So far..., it is very much possible that multiple leaders will make their return in an expansion. It basically seems to be a matter of how much time the art teams need for each leader.

1 unit per tile and no SoD
That is going to make combat involve a lot more choices and thus more complicated, rather than simpler. Chess is one of the hardest most complicated strategy games out there.


unique bonus for each civ, not like a combo of 2 traits (it was mentioned somewhere but not officially condirmed yet, am i right?)
So we are basically getting 18 different traits. That is double the number in vanilla Civ4.
 
I, for one, never really cared which leaders were available. I do, however, care about the possible trait combinations and such that comes with it. I hope that this flexibility will prevail even if it's not tied to specific leaders.
 
So the only thread in this entire forum about the Gamepro article and the new stuff we learned about this game is also about how dissapointed we all are and how awful this new game will be? This is absurd.
 
I don't want Stalin!! I want Catherine. The young version.
 
So we are basically getting 18 different traits. That is double the number in vanilla Civ4.
Well, i meant that each lader has 2 traits. as i said before, i can't say much before seeing the bonuses. SMAC approach was fine. each faction had a bonus and disadvantage.

I don't want Stalin!! I want Catherine. The young version.
I prefer Stalin politically and I want him get good bonuses. In civ4 he should get PHI/ORG, PHI/CHA or CHA/ORG which would match with his character.

But I admit I also like Cathy. I want her slap me :)
 
But I admit I also like Cathy. I want her slap me :)

What?!?! Has she been slapping people behind my back? I thought we had something special Cathy!

Ok, on topic. All this did is make me want more info. I know a lot of people are disappointed now, but we know so little about the game, that I think we are jumping the gun over whether or not we're disappointed with Civ5.

On religion: I liked the idea of religion in Civ4, but felt it was lacking in it's implementation, especially with spread. It felt overly forced and building missionaries often felt like a waste of resources, and if you founded a late religion, there was little point trying to spread it. I would play many games where 3-5 cities would have no religion by endgame. I would rather wait and have a better implementation of religion in an EP, rather than have another broken one in Vanilla. I'd even be OK if it didn't appear at all if it was nothing or Civ4 religion system for Civ5.
 
If 1unit per tile is true, then i suppose an approach like in the old "Realms" game is required which includes number of soldiers in each troop. otherwise, 1unit per tile will be just like a chess game.
You wouldn't argue though that chess is a simple game to play, would you? It has a set of rather simple rules but a tremendous amount of interaction, even over the course of a few moves. I think it's that what makes a game complex, not the amount of units.

Jaca
 
But just as Jesus threatens to return, maybe religion will make a messianic return of biblically epic proportions in an expansion pack!

Sorry, but I'm with the Buddhists on this one: Let's just reincarnate religion from game to game, shall we?
 
I wonder why so many people are disappointed by only one leader, maybe they add leader in Expansions. But the news of leaders speaking is something I am really interested in. Hope they get native speakers or at least capable voice actors. Also so far I'm happy with the civ choise, I'm right now waiting for the confirmation of Russia, Greece and Persia.
 
On Wu Zeitian - there are problems about evaluating her effectiveness as a leader. The main thing one has to remember is that in classical Asia - at least in theory, anything unorthodox - including having a woman as ruler - was considered bad, bad, bad, period. It's a conservative climate. Think of the Japanese code of honor, or the Confucian heiarchy in China. Of course in reality things weren't that rigid, and change always happened, but I think you guys get my point here.

Basically, the problem with Wu was that since she was a female ruler, contemporary and subsequent accounts of her tend to be extremely negative. It is hard to figure out exactly what she was really like, since basically all the Chinese historians were more or less like "She's a woman! Bad bad bad!".

Although this in and of itself could be used against her in terms of her inclusion in Civ5, since it's so hard to figure out exactly what she did bad or good.

However, even though I would have prefered Taizong or QSH or one of the other Chinese Emperors to Wu, I'm still so happy that Mao is out and replaced by an Asian girl (or... old hag, if that's what they choose to do... but that's still better than Mao for me).

:woohoo:
 
Although I have no problems with communists, I am happy that Mao is replaced. I just think that China needed some fresh leader change, since Mao was in every civ game so far. I also support Stalin or Peter over Cathy (yes I am one of those weirdos that don't have a crush on Cathy, but I did like Theodora over Justinian). Not that I don't like her, it's just that Russia needs a man to lead it. Also it would be awesome if Stalin would speak with a Georgian accent. We have Wu as the female Chinese leader and we will probably get Elizabeth for Britain, I wonder which civ will alo get an female leader? The one with the biggest chances are Spain and Egypt or they could add a female Viking leader.:lol:

Can somebody upload some scans from the magazine?
 
I don't really have a problem with one leader... I prefer modeling traits by the civ to the leader. Really, I don't even care a whole lot about who the leaders are - sure, Joan of Arc never led France, but that didn't cause me to never play a Civ3 game with France in it.

In the end, there are probably a couple hundred other things I'd care about before leader choice. For that matter, in the only psuedo-completed scenario I made for Civ3, I left most of the leader names blank as it really was not a major concern.
 
I somewhat agree with Quintillus. I don't believe there should be any leaders in the traditional Civ sense, where you pick one leader at the start, with or without unique traits, and that's your character for the rest of the game.

What I'd like to see instead are leaders that change over time and in response to player actions. Starting out as Rome, you'd get somebody like Cincinnatus for example, and as time progresses this would change to the Gracchi or Sulla and then finally to the Caesars, if your government changed from republic to empire. Switching to communism in Russia would see Lenin and Stalin take power from Czar Nicholas, and similarly with China and Mao. Under democracies some sort of election might even determine it, along with political parties.

This would not have to be purely for flavor, as different leaders could still have different priorities (militarist Stalin vs. pacifistic Gandhi) and possibly even different trait bonuses. But for it to work, the 3D artwork for every leader would have to be abandoned in favor of 2D or photographs as in Civ 2, since it would be too demanding on the developers, and I don't think they're willing to go that direction.
 
One leader/civ kind of sucks. I hope they at least allow multiple leaders to be modded in.
 
Look, I'll be the first to admit that religions were probably *too* powerful as they were introduced in Civ4 (indeed, a great deal of my modding was centered around trying to implement more *negatives* to religion-especially under certain religious civics), & I'll also be the first to admit that they can-& should-be improved. Removing them, though, is like throwing the baby out with the bathwater!
 
I really don't care about the only one leader per Civ thing. That's not a big deal to me at all, as long as each Civ is very unique.

Regarding some of the leader choices: I liked Saladin for Arabia and I didn't really mind Mao for China since he made China a modern power. I also liked Togugawa for Japan. I do think Washington for America and Bismarck for Germany are the right choices though. But I'm not too concerned about the leader choices (more concerned about the Civs than leaders)

Only thing I'm disappointed about so far is the lack of religions, but hopefully they have other exciting additions that make me forget about religion.
 
1 leader per civ, disappointed, 1 unit per tile, disappointed,
also stalin really? I mean the russians tried to wipe his memory from history for a reason.
and one last rant, bring back religion!
 
I somewhat agree with Quintillus. I don't believe there should be any leaders in the traditional Civ sense, where you pick one leader at the start, with or without unique traits, and that's your character for the rest of the game.

What I'd like to see instead are leaders that change over time and in response to player actions. Starting out as Rome, you'd get somebody like Cincinnatus for example, and as time progresses this would change to the Gracchi or Sulla and then finally to the Caesars, if your government changed from republic to empire. Switching to communism in Russia would see Lenin and Stalin take power from Czar Nicholas, and similarly with China and Mao. Under democracies some sort of election might even determine it, along with political parties.

This would not have to be purely for flavor, as different leaders could still have different priorities (militarist Stalin vs. pacifistic Gandhi) and possibly even different trait bonuses. But for it to work, the 3D artwork for every leader would have to be abandoned in favor of 2D or photographs as in Civ 2, since it would be too demanding on the developers, and I don't think they're willing to go that direction.

The thing is, a civilization's reputation is built by the person who leads it. Look at America, for example, Bush was the president, and America was the worst thing to happen to this world... Obama is president now and everybody sings the praises. At least, as far as I have seen, anyway!
 
The thing is, a civilization's reputation is built by the person who leads it. Look at America, for example, Bush was the president, and America was the worst thing to happen to this world... Obama is president now and everybody sings the praises. At least, as far as I have seen, anyway!

if u lived outside USA, you would see that nobody praises him. Everybody can see that he is a figure to recover american image after simultenaous 2wars in the gulf.
 
Top Bottom