My WW2 Thesis Paper. A long, long, long post.

YES! Finnaly I can post again! (No, I was not banned it is just that my other account does not work for some reason )

Here is my paper. Many thanx to those whoes words I used:

I did a report on the mistakes that Germany made that cost them victory in
World War 2. I think that many things may have contributed to Germany’s loss in World
War 2, including Hitler’s decisions, the time of year Russia was attacked, the war on
many fronts and lack of strong allies. Ultimately, I tried to prove my ideas with quotes
from my sources and my own conclusions.
First, as I said, I believe Hitler’s poor judgement was one of the reasons Germany
lost the war. The following quote helps prove that he underestimated the seriousness of
the Allies to commit after the invasion of Poland:

Despite threats from the west the reoccupation of the Rhineland in 1936, the annexation of Austria, Bohemis-Moravia and Memel in 1938 and 1939 happened without retaliation. The British, after declaring war on Germany on the 1st
September 1939 did little to assist Poland whom surrendered three weeks later.
This helped to convince Hitler he was immune to international reaction. (www.4freeessays.com/esssays/2403.shtml)

Basically, Hitler though he was immune to retaliation from Britain and the other
Allies and was free to sweep into Europe and take what ever he pleased. Thinking thus, he began Operation Case Yellow (The invasions of Belgium, France, and Holland) before assistance from the west could arrive. Belgium, France, and Holland all fell, forcing the British to retreat back to Great Britain. Hitler then began Blitzkrieg raids, to weaken British defenses, in preparation for Operation Sea Lion the proposed invasion of Britain by three of the German armies. The Luftwaffe continued bombing for months but could not gain air supremacy, so Hitler discarded plans for Operation Sea Lion and declared war on Russia. In my opinion, this was another one of Hitler’s mistakes and here is why:

The Russians had three advantages; the size of the country, its large army and its ally the Russian Winter. Before the attack Hitler signed a new German-Russian treaty and as a result Russia was unprepared for the German onslaught. When
Germany invaded Russia (Operation Barbarossa) they did so in the mistaken belief that war would be over in a few months and were equipped only for summer fighting. (www.4freeessays.com/esssays/2403.shtml)

The Germans did make surprising advances early on in the fighting capturing Riga, Smolensk and Kiev. Hitler, confidant that the war in Russia wouldn’t last long, declared war on the United States, another big mistake which brings me to my next quote:

Declaring war on the US was another of Hitler’s critical errors as it was unnecessary because the US had not made a single move towards attacking Germany. Germany was now engaging in war against another of the world’s great powers. Germany had invaded Russia well before the Battle of Britain had been won. It had weakened its strength by diverting troops to different fronts, and by declaring war on the United States, Germany was also strengthening its enemies.
The US would be able to combine with Britain, plus the US would use Britain as a base for air raids later in the war. These air raids destroyed the German economy, destroying major cities and industrial areas. The US had unlimited resources and manpower plus were geographically advantaged as they were isolated from any attacks. Declaring war on the United States was a crucial error by Hitler, it was unnecessary and proved very costly for the German war effort. (Sharna Nelson, www.planetpapers.com/Assets/2159.php)

Within the space of six months Germany had declared war on the worlds two superpowers, invaded half of Russia, and lost thousands of men .As if that wasn’t enough the German advance began to slow because of the rough transportation systems in the Russian countryside. Because of this slow advancement, Hitler took command of the invasion force and changed the objectives from Moscow to Stalingrad, dismissing Moscow as ‘just another geographical location’. That was another big mistake, and here is a quote that proves my point:

Hitler got fixated on Stalingrad because of the name. The city was not that strategically valuable. Moscow should have been the primary objective at all times. It was the rail hub for the entire country and also the political center point. If Moscow had fallen, the Russians probably have surrendered. (Knowltok, http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10690)

After the change in objectives, the German Sixth Army marched toward Stalingrad, completely unaware that Stalin had ordered his armies to protect the city at all costs. The Germans took most of the city, but within a few days the Russians broke the German lines and surrounded the Sixth Army. The Germans were systematically slaughtered until the Sixth Army’s Commander Von Paulos surrendered.
Mean while in North Africa, General Rommel’s requests for more troops ‘were falling on deaf ears.’ After a well planned Allied offensive the Afrika Korps were forced to retreat to El Alheila. The Afrika Korps launched a counterattack just as successful as the Allied offensive but was forced to surrender in the end because the counterattack ‘could not be sustained as its stocks of fuel had been seriously depleted.’ Hitler and his chiefs of staffs’ failures to take the war in Africa seriously also lead to German defeat.
Italy surrendered after only thirty-nine days of fighting in 1943. This lowered German moral and took up more divisions. Italy gave the Allies bases for their bombers, and proved very helpful when coupled with the invasion of Normandy.
On June 6 1944, Deliverance Day, or D-Day, began the end for Germany, As Hitler had mistakenly placed his forces in Pas de Calais, ignoring his generals’ warnings that the Allied attack would not take place there. France was liberated within a few weeks and Germany was placed in a threatening position. Hitler’s last attempt to defend Germany, the Battle of the Bulge, failed. With the Americans and British marching from the east and the Russians marching from the west, the Germans surrendered in 1945 shortly after the fall of Berlin.
The mistakes Hitler made that I listed above were not solely the reason Germany lost. For example, Hitler’s dedication to the Final Solution was a great drain on Germany, elaborated in further detail by this quote:

The pursuit of the Final Solution was a constant drain of Germany’s resources and manpower. Jews were continually transported from Ghettos in the cities of Poland and Germany to the extermination camps by rail. The railways could have been used for other purposes, for transporting troops, artillery, supplies, and other purposes used for winning the war. Plus, Hitler had some of his best army men wasted in administrative jobs in these camps, although they were more suited to action and fighting out on the fronts. (Sharna Nelson, www.planetpapers.com/Assets/2159.php)

This quote says that instead of using up railways and resources to transport Jews,
Hitler could have transported troops or heavy artillery to the front lines. I can infer that if Hitler had transported his troops faster that might have won him some major battles.
Hitler’s view of women also played a big part in World War 2. Hitler viewed women as child-bearers and homemakers as this quote says:

Hitler’s views on the role of women also took its toll on the number of people serving in the army. Nazi principles stated that a woman’s place was with her child and in her home and her job was to bring children into the world for the existence of her people. Nazi ideology was very simple, biological differences between male and female had carved out separate spheres for men and women, and woman’s sphere was essentially the home, where, as nature intended, she ministered to husband and children. In 1942, Speer requested that women took their place in the workforce, as part of the demand for total mobilization. Hitler passionately opposed this because of his ideological belief in the role of women as mothers even though casualties were increasing from the failed campaigns in
Russia and other areas, and army numbers were depleting rapidly. (Sharna Nelson, www.planetpapers.com/Assets/2159.php)


As the above quote states, Hitler was opposed to the idea of women in the military
or on the work force. Through out the whole war Hitler maintained his belief that women should not be troops or workers, even when the casualties sky rocketed, Hitler was still opposed. In America we were able to commit more troops to the war because the women worked, but in the Germany Hitler kept taking men off the field to build airplanes, tanks, and other equipment greatly decreasing his number of troops.
To conclude, the Allies did not win because they were numerically superior, or because they were better trained, but because of the mistakes that Hitler and Germany as a whole made. From the time of year the Germans attacked Russia, to the alliance with Italy, Germany had many chances to win the war, and they blew off every single one. As one of the many posters at CFC said ‘Hitler was the Allies greatest asset.’

You completely left out the Enigma story which shortened the war by a year or two. Not only did it win the Atlantic War but also gave the Allies a huge advantage in Africa and in Europe after D-day.

To conclude, the Allies did not win because they were numerically superior, or because they were better trained, but because of the mistakes that Hitler and Germany as a whole made.

All the factors you have mentioned could be countered by superior technology and other factors. One thing the Axis simply could not match was industrial capacity and manpower. So this statement is completely untrue too. The Allies were numerically superior in both areas and that was the main reason they won. 13 million soviets died verses 3 million germans. If the soviets had only 3 million soldiers, they would have been long dead. For every german tank lost, 5 soviet tanks were destroyed.

The americans were churning out 5 times the number of planes the germans could (and not because of bombing) at the peak and eager to exchange their planes one for one (that's why they were painted silver).

Thanks for pointing that out Kobayashi

As for my 'To conclude' statement, what I ment was: Yes, the allies were numerically superior, and yes they were better trained, but that is not the only reason they won. Hitler made so many mistakes it is not even funny. I just pointed out the big ones.

Btw, what the hell is the 'Enigma story'? (I know what the Enigma is, but what do you mean?)

I think the biggest error the Germans made, and one that is often overlooked, is that they completely lacked any sort of strategic goals for war. To the Germans, the war was a series of campaigns. First the Poles, then the Norwegians and Danes, then the French, etc, etc, etc. No goal, just a stumbling from fight to fight.

Even the Japanese had strategic goals, which they largely achieved. Their mistake was overestimating their own military capabilities and the productive capabilities of their enemy.

You can win a war without a plan, but it makes it a lot more difficult.

/bruce

Originally posted by Xeven the God
Declaring war on the US was another of Hitler’s critical errors as it was unnecessary because the US had not made a single move towards attacking Germany.

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That is very wrong. in 1941 the US had taken many actions which could have been considered acts of war against Germany. For example, during the second half of 1941 (and before any declaration of war) the US Navy began escorting convoys carrying weapons to Britain, with the escort destroyers authorised to attack any German ship or submarine they encounted. In addition, the US and British militaries had been conducting very serious joint planning of how to fight both Japan and Germany (that's where the 'Germany first' doctrine came from)

Hitler got fixated on Stalingrad because of the name. The city was not that strategically valuable. Moscow should have been the primary objective at all times. It was the rail hub for the entire country and also the political center point. If Moscow had fallen, the Russians probably have surrendered. (Knowltok, http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10690)

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While Moscow was an important city, Stalingrad was the key to the control of the Caucaus oil fields, which were vital to the Soviet war economy.

The Germans took most of the city, but within a few days the Russians broke the German lines and surrounded the Sixth Army.

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Actually, the fighing in Stalingrad went on for over three months before the Red Army's counter attack.

Hitler and his chiefs of staffs’ failures to take the war in Africa seriously also lead to German defeat.

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The war in Africa was pretty irrelevent to Germany, who had little to win or lose in the theatre. The only major mistake the Germans made was reinforcing Tunisia after Operation Torch

Italy surrendered after only thirty-nine days of fighting in 1943. This lowered German moral and took up more divisions. Italy gave the Allies bases for their bombers, and proved very helpful when coupled with the invasion of Normandy.

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The Italian campaign was actually a net gain for the Germans. The German army in Italy was able to pin down a much larger Allied army, and the logistical demands of the Italian campaign actually made D-Day harder to stage.

On June 6 1944, Deliverance Day, or D-Day, began the end for Germany, As Hitler had mistakenly placed his forces in Pas de Calais, ignoring his generals’ warnings that the Allied attack would not take place there.

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Actually, most of the German generals in the west believed that the Pas de Calais was the most likely site for the Allied invasion.

This quote says that instead of using up railways and resources to transport Jews,
Hitler could have transported troops or heavy artillery to the front lines.

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The German army was never short of weapons or ammo untill the last few months of the war, so I don't think that the final solution was that big a burden.

Through out the whole war Hitler maintained his belief that women should not be troops or workers, even when the casualties sky rocketed, Hitler was still opposed. In America we were able to commit more troops to the war because the women worked, but in the Germany Hitler kept taking men off the field to build airplanes, tanks, and other equipment greatly decreasing his number of troops.

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True, but you should mention that the Nazis believed that slave labour would make up for shortages in the workforce.

To conclude, the Allies did not win because they were numerically superior, or because they were better trained, but because of the mistakes that Hitler and Germany as a whole made.

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Rubbish. The Germans bit off far more then they could chew, and got thrashed for their troubles.

Btw, what the hell is the 'Enigma story'? (I know what the Enigma is, but what do you mean?)

Enigma is explained here

http://homepages.tesco.net/~andycarlson/enigma/about_enigma.html

All important radio messages were coded via an Enigma Machine which had 10 to the power of 28 combinations (which is more than the number of atoms on earth) and was supposedly unbreakable. It was broken and the Allies were able to know most of the German's troop movements and strategic plans. For instance, the fact that many of Rommel's operations described as strokes of genius in military history were only possible thanks to the constant information from his surveillance company, On learning about this through the Enigma decodes, the Australian 9th Division captured the German Intelligence Long Range Reconnaissance Company 621 at Tel el Eisa. It had been Rommel's ear in the enemy's camp. Its elimination can be regarded as one of the turning points in the Dessert War.

To quote Charles Proser, producer of the documentary -The Ultra Enigma:

"One of the greatest secrets of World War II was the German enigma machine which was used to encipher German radio messages," Mr. Proser says. "The story behind 'Ultra,' which is what these deciphered messages were called, is one of the greatest secrets of the Second World War. How the Allies broke this 'unbreakable' machine code, were able to propagate the intercepted messages to their field commanders, and used these compromised secrets in a campaign of grand deception is a story that changes our understanding of the history of the war and of the 20th century. Moreover, the fact that the Allied Cryptanalysts had to invent the computer to do this, makes this story even more relevant to our present life."

http://www.secretsofwar.com/html/the_ultra_enigma.html

OK, these gentlemen have provided a goodly amount of factual clarification, so I'll slip out of my holiday robes and back into my history and english teacher/ pipe smoking academic mode.

Fair arguments, but need to fix structure a bit more: clear intro setting out what each of your main points will be, along with setting the main premise of your argument, and foreshadowing conclusion.

Do so as well for each paragraph, albeit in a smaller form: Intro the point, expand, conclude with linking statement to next idea.

Conclusion should be a bit longer, summarizing arguments, and showing why they prove your case. What you've got at the moment is just a nice pithy summarizing sentence. That would work well as the conclusion of the conclusion.

Very important, structure.

Sources: Sites like "Free essays", "Planet papers" or even the posts of some of our esteemed members aren't the best to use as sources, mainly because their credentials cannot be proved. Textbooks, monographs, published essays or articles, and their online authorized equivalent are the best. I don't know what the guidelines for this task were, but that's how we work it here, and in academe in general. A bit of variety of sources will always look good in the eyes of a marker, as it makes it look like you have done a fair bit of research and engaged with your topic. For a start, try to get a hold of "The Penguin History of the Second World War" by Peter Calvocoressi, Guy Wint and John Pritchard. It provides a good overview of the war in all its theatres in a relatively short 1200 pages.

Referencing methods: Looks like Harvard system, and they use that over there, so that's fine. Include a bibliography if specified.

Overall: If I remember correctly, you would be in early years of high school, so this essay is more than sufficient for the requirements of that level. But try to include some of the suggestions here, if you are so inclined, as they can do naught but add to your grade.

Sorry Case.....I guess I shortened the war by a couple years, huh?

Thanx, Kob. that helps clear things up.

And Simon, thanks for those suggestions. I'll try that when I write my next paper.

I'd also add that Germany was WINNING the Battle of Britain up to the point Hitler switched the targets of the Luftwaffe from the airfields and aircraft production lines to civilian targets. Britain, while putting up a good struggle, was rapidly running out of planes and crew and there was a good chance the Luftwaffe could have gained air superiority for an invasion if this switch had not occured. Hitler then changing his mind about invading England at all and going after Russia further compounded the problem.

For ANY essay that I would ever do on the history of WW2 I'd re-read or at least use as reference "Liddle Hart's History of the Second World War"...this book is excellent in that although it is pretty concise it does delve deep into the important aspects of strategy, economics, tactics (the historian was a British Army Captain during the war) and how the war was won and lost!

You can also learn alot about how to present an arguement for a history paper rather than quoted ascertians like by KnowItall that Russia would surrender had Moscow fallen.

Best of all Liddle Hart in addition to being a practicing Officer at the time had interviewed the Generals (especially German) AFTER the war and had known many of them prior to it and so has an in-depth appreciation of THEIR outlook.

It certainly would be MUCH better that the sources you used for this essay...

Hope this helps you if not now but in future

(P.S among other things kitten got 3 LARGE history books for Christmas charting the most significant battles in World History )

While it is true that the US was actively helping the British well before December 1941, it was still a mistake for Hitler to declare war. He should have hung the Japanese out to dry and offered token help. Anything to keep American Divisions from marching into Europe and American Bombers from flying over German cities. Proper diplomacy on this point might have made the US a non factor for several more years while they defeated the Japanese.

above Case said

In addition, the US and British militaries had been conducting very serious joint planning of how to fight both Japan and Germany (that's where the 'Germany first' doctrine came from)

he's quite right, but I came across something very interesting relating to this.

I don't know if any one has heard of A. J . P. Tylor? He was a very famous historian who died in the Eighties (I think).

I was reading a book of his called "How Wars Begin" - it's basically all about how the major modern wars (Napoleonic, Franco-Prussian, WW1, WW2 and Cold War) began. It's quite short but interesting. Anyway, I came across this remarkable bit of information. According to Mr. Taylor why did America focus on Germany first and not Japan?

Because they already had a plan for it. Not for Germany specifically - for an altogether stranger enemy.

Mr. Taylor says this document is in one of the American government archives. It seems absurd, but he was a very very well respected Historian and not known for flights of fancy so I guess I believe him.

The Americans had a strategic defence plan to resist invasion by and fight an Atlantic war with a country called "RED".
This document was written in the late twenties and supposedly "RED" was going to land 8 million men in Canada and push south to destroy American Industry.

But who was "RED"? no it wasn't Russia. It was Britain. Apparently the Americans had seriously planned for a British Invasion. They even expected Japan to join in and help the British. So when war broke out all they had to do was ajust the plan for Germany instead of Britain.

Weird huh? Anyway it does seem a bit strange and if you don't beleive it thats fine, just don't get at me - I'm merely relaying what I read. The book exists - check it out, but it's quite old so might be hard to find. I got this copy from my University Library.

Originally posted by knowltok
While it is true that the US was actively helping the British well before December 1941, it was still a mistake for Hitler to declare war. He should have hung the Japanese out to dry and offered token help. Anything to keep American Divisions from marching into Europe and American Bombers from flying over German cities. Proper diplomacy on this point might have made the US a non factor for several more years while they defeated the Japanese.

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If the US hadn't intervened directly, however, we would have most likely had the Soviets wiping out the remaining German occupied terriotories. You could have had a scenario where most, if not all of Mainland Europe was under Soviet control.

"he was a very very well respected Historian and not known for flights of fancy so I guess I believe him."

Taylor?! Not known for flights of fancy?
Maybe to the general public, being a bit of a celebrity historian, but among others of his discipline, such as Trevor Wilson for one, he is seen as a man who "didn't let history get in the way of a good story"

Taylor's works are well known, but they are not the only ones on the matter.

Originally posted by Hamlet


If the US hadn't intervened directly, however, we would have most likely had the Soviets wiping out the remaining German occupied terriotories. You could have had a scenario where most, if not all of Mainland Europe was under Soviet control.

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That was my point. Not sure if you were disagreeing or confirming.

I'll chime in here. First, a couple more of Hitler's mistakes:

1) He had Operation Sea Lion (i.e. land invasion of Britain) already in the works, which he scrapped in lieu of Barbarossa. Making the Russian invasion all the more dumb.
2) Sea Lion would have been easier to execute if Germany had won the Battle of Britain--which Germany WOULD have won, if Hitler hadn't ordered the bombing of London instead of British military installations. Hitler's idea was to "break British morale" by bombing its civilians. Had the Luftwaffe continued to target the RAF, Germany probably would have won air superiority.
3) Stalingrad would not have been the turning point in the Eastern Front had Hitler not issued blind "never retreat" orders, resulting in the annihilation of the Sixth Army (it was the Sixth, right?).
4) More "never retreat" orders to the Afrika Korps, despite Rommel's pleas to evacuate. Besides needlessly losing another army, Rommel and Hitler were at odds ever since.
5) On D-Day, all along there was a Panzer division nearby, just sitting there. Had they counterattacked, they probably could have driven the Allies right off the beaches. But Hitler insisted he command it personally, and he was asleep most of the day. No one dared wake Hitler up from his "beauty sleep," so the division never got the orders.


Another important factor was the Allies' sabotage of the Germans' atom bomb research. Unimpeded, the Germans might have gotten the Bomb first, which obviously is no minor detail.

Also, the other poster was right about several German generals also believing the Allies would attack in Pas de Calais. Namely, Von Rundstedt, who was in charge of northern France. Rommel believed it would be elsewhere (I think his first guess was Cherbourg, which would not have been far off).

Interesting debate. Theres some old threads with lots of what-if stuff in here somewhere along these lines.

Hitler's armies were without a doubt the finest in the world by 1941, and led by the worst general. Hitler.

1) He had Operation Sea Lion (i.e. land invasion of Britain) already in the works, which he scrapped in lieu of Barbarossa. Making the Russian invasion all the more dumb.

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Had Hitler invaded Britain we could speak now that Sealion was his biggest mistake..

Seriously speaking, Soviet Union had a giant and ever growing army. In June 1941 they had in frontier military districts 12,782 tanks including 967 T-34 and 504 KV-1 tanks. (For comparison: germans deployed for Barbarossa 3332 tanks including 965 Panzer III and 439 Panzer IV tanks)

It could be very risky decision for Germany to invade Britain and left huge Soviet armies behind back. There was no guarantee about Stalin's peaceful nature.

3) Stalingrad would not have been the turning point in the Eastern Front had Hitler not issued blind "never retreat" orders, resulting in the annihilation of the Sixth Army (it was the Sixth, right?).

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Can't agree here too. If army group B (situated in Stalingrad region) had retreated then army group A (what had the most tanks) could be trapped. "Not retreat" order was given to Paulus mainly because to allow southern armies to retreat from Caucasus. What they did.

At the same time it can be argued had Hitler ordered Kleist back sooner then there would have been no need to hold firm around Stalingrad...and then they could fall back to Rostov during the Winter...

It also should be remembered with regard to the German declaration of war on The US that at the time the US had virtually no military. None. It had been a constatnt thorn in the German side by supplying Britain with various needs and was not then the industrial power that it is today.
It is easy to look at America today and say why the hell would he declare war, but it did make sense if he could cut the supply lines to Europe at little miltary risk. America had no military and would take several years to build one. (and did) Hitler was shortsighted and figured that wioth the severing of North American support, two years would be plenty of time to consolidate his gains and then worry about America.
Up to this point (Dec. 41) the German army had been steamrolling, it would not have been unrealistic to expect two years or so to be plenty of time to lock down Europe and then, well, your gonna have to fight America then anyway.
Upshot: Declaring war on America not as crazy as it may seem in retrospect