Dawn of Civilization - an RFC modmod by Leoreth

I wasnt suggesting vassalage I was suggesting a Union. The problem with this might be that they would tech too quickly.

But as you say it would only be for a short amount of time so this might not be an issue. Im not suggesting modelling the Carolingian Empire in depth. Im just suggesting a way of starting France and Germany as one country and avoiding the problem of germany starting in eastern europe with is ahistorical and you said you wanted to change.

There is no concept in civ for a union, other than an alliance. And that's irreversible.

There is no concept in civ for a union, other than an alliance. And that's irreversible.

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Thats more the kind of reply I was expecting. Its irreversible in the game by a player or an AI.

But surely somehow it is possible to force the end of an alliance in the code.

Maybe. But not for me

Version 1.1 will be released soon with the following features:



I've already played a Netherlands game (that time without the additional techs from 1.1), and it was very hard. Researching Astronomy took much too long, and the merchant condition prohibits Netherlands from using scientists. But I don't want to give them Astronomy from the start.

Does anyone know if there is a possibility to grant beakers to a certain tech? With only half of the tech costs the game would be much easier.

No astronomy for Dutch in 1500!? That's insane. (I usually get it at 1400 at the latest)

I've run ~10 test starts so far and in none of them any AI civ had Astronomy. Giving the player such an advantage would make the UHV a piece of cake.

I know early Astronomy was easily achievable in vanilla RFC for the Dutch ... but there they get so much preparation time it's not even funny. Another reason why I delayed their start

Just completed their new UHV for the first time, by the way. It was ... hard, to say the least. Got my UHV in 1760 AD. Expansion in Europe is completely impossible, but sending the start galleys to South Africa and getting Mexico via conquerors with the starting Caravel works fine. Research is SLOW, and I mean really slow (I only researched Astronomy, Education and Liberalism). I was lucky to get Astronomy from Arabia. Amsterdam is occupied in running merchants most of the time and can't contribute much. It's just about the right difficulty to me.

Pictures:


Other observations: cities get huge very fast without plague. An the other hand, armies are larger, and there seems to be a lot more action going on (France and Germany were fighting over Italy when I spawned, which is very historical. The Germans kicked them out of it and where able to take over the rest when France collapsed roughly 100 years later. So maybe I'll reactivate the plague, but make it harm no units ... let's see.

I think I'll be able to upload it tomorrow.

I really like the idea of having the plague lower population but not kill units.

The whole point that the Dutch spawning late is that they get no place to expand but have a tech advantage. If you don't give them astronomy it's just wrong, unless you're prepared to give them banking, gunpowder, economics, corporation, etc. (and probably impossible for emperor)

Love the new color changes, and I also agree(to a point) with the 'Prussia is not Germany' thing. I would like the change of Germany to Austria(mostly because Germany didn't become important in world matters until after the Industrial era[almost too late in the game for any interest]). I would also take out Maya(or Khmer) for an addition to a better civ(or at least an improvement[although I don't know how to improve them, other than making it easier for them to survive, as the AI]).


EDIT:I got A bug that is annoying(see pic). It happens everytime a new civ spawns(obviously), after the normal dutch spawn.

Austria would probably be better than Germany. Besides, Prussia's late dynamic name could be Germany.

The whole point that the Dutch spawning late is that they get no place to expand but have a tech advantage. If you don't give them astronomy it's just wrong, unless you're prepared to give them banking, gunpowder, economics, corporation, etc. (and probably impossible for emperor)

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I agree with you on that in principle. The problem with the Dutch is that they still have the in-built tech advantage of a pre-1000AD civ and not the higher bonus of say, America (sadly I don't know where I can change that yet). They already have Banking and Gunpowder. Economics would be a problem because they are likely to be the first civ with it and will receive a great merchant at spawn. So Economics and Astronomy at start both trivialize the UHV.
My desired situation would be that the Dutch are ~10 turns away from either Astronomy or Liberalism when they spawn.

Love the new color changes, and I also agree(to a point) with the 'Prussia is not Germany' thing. I would like the change of Germany to Austria(mostly because Germany didn't become important in world matters until after the Industrial era[almost too late in the game for any interest]). I would also take out Maya(or Khmer) for an addition to a better civ(or at least an improvement[although I don't know how to improve them, other than making it easier for them to survive, as the AI]).

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This is exactly what I plan to do: "Germany" spawns in Vienna and a new Prussian civ spawns at Berlin in 1700 AD (propably replacing the Mayas). Coincidentally, fitting colors are available now "Germany" then will get a new set of UHV conditions and the Holy Rome UU&UB, and Prussia will have to conquer Europe in a much shorter time. Their late dynamic names will represent that by Prussia growing into Germany and "Germany" growing into Austria.

However, I will not begin implementing this until all other planned features are in (although it's one of the changes I'll anticipate most myself). The involved changes are massive and I want to have everything working until I try it.

EDIT:I got A bug that is annoying(see pic). It happens everytime a new civ spawns(obviously), after the normal dutch spawn.

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I also noticed that. But because it doesn't interrupt the game (as long as you don't accept, which I haven't dared to do yet), I've released the modmod anyway. But I think I know how to suppress these messages, so it'll be fixed soon.

I think that when civs start with a tech which gives them a free great person they don't get it. For example I think China starts with Music in 600AD start yet they don't get a great artist and anyone who research Music first gets the GA.

I think that when civs start with a tech which gives them a free great person they don't get it. For example I think China starts with Music in 600AD start yet they don't get a great artist and anyone who research Music first gets the GA.

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Oh, that's good. Then Economics for Netherlands might be possible.

Any chance you could merge the epic/marathon speed modmod with this Leoreth?

Both mods change different aspects of the game, so there should be no problem to simply merge and recompile the files. I haven't looked into it, though. But since I'm also a fan of this modmod, chances are pretty high
Let's wait until embryodead releases a final version.

man this mod looks amazing. Prussia should damn well be in the game. 1700 start sounds great. Holy Rome should change to be Austria? I'll download this after some bugs are fixed and Prussia is put into the game!

Well, One, I don't know why for the "Universal" religion, you can't use Confucianism. I mean, you could keep the Taoist symbol, buildings, etc, but just name the religion Confucianism. It would just be universally better.

Two, I found a solution to the Copenhagen problem! When they spawn, have two settlers, one in Copenhagen, one in Oslo. Spilt the stack evenly between them. The AI AND the player would be able to choose if their capitol would be Copenhagen or Oslo, and still have a city on the other part of Europe! Also, I'd suggest that, if the Viking's capitol is in Denmark, have Danish Dynamic names instead of Swedish past Renaissance.

Three, while Prussia doesn't equal Germany, neither does Austria! Prussia and Austria should be two different civs, Austria when the HRE effectively became under their control, and Prussia during the rise of Frederick the Great. The vanilla Germany UHVs could be Prussia's, while Austria is more Medieval.

Fourth, I was always disappointed that the Byzantines were left out as a playable civ. It would be great if you changed Khmer into well placed Indy cities and added them. They would spawn after the official spilt of the Romans, in Constantinople. Naturally, the city wouldn't be a core for Turkey. UHVs would focus between the time of the fall of Rome and the rise of the Ottomans, maybe even having a UHV of them defeating the Turks. One problem would be of religion. They were neither Catholic nor Protestant, they were Orthodox, which isn't represented in this mod. Maybe we would just have them be Catholic, but then something like the 4th Crusade wouldn't happen.

If you decide to make the Khmer independent cities, don't give them Singapura, as England never gets it.

Well, One, I don't know why for the "Universal" religion, you can't use Confucianism. I mean, you could keep the Taoist symbol, buildings, etc, but just name the religion Confucianism. It would just be universally better.

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Are you suggesting to name the religion Confucianism but the temples etc. taoist temple?

Two, I found a solution to the Copenhagen problem! When they spawn, have two settlers, one in Copenhagen, one in Oslo. Spilt the stack evenly between them. The AI AND the player would be able to choose if their capitol would be Copenhagen or Oslo, and still have a city on the other part of Europe! Also, I'd suggest that, if the Viking's capitol is in Denmark, have Danish Dynamic names instead of Swedish past Renaissance.

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I also thought about that (in fact, I've already done it for Phoenicia, they get a settler at Carthage if controlled by the AI). Maybe I'll run some tests how it affects their city placements and Germany's behavior. Dynamic civ names are not dependent on capital location yet ... although this could be a nice later feature. I've also got a good Christian IV leaderhead to accompany this

Fourth, I was always disappointed that the Byzantines were left out as a playable civ. It would be great if you changed Khmer into well placed Indy cities and added them. They would spawn after the official spilt of the Romans, in Constantinople. Naturally, the city wouldn't be a core for Turkey. UHVs would focus between the time of the fall of Rome and the rise of the Ottomans, maybe even having a UHV of them defeating the Turks. One problem would be of religion. They were neither Catholic nor Protestant, they were Orthodox, which isn't represented in this mod. Maybe we would just have them be Catholic, but then something like the 4th Crusade wouldn't happen.

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As stated above, I would love to play as the Byzantines myself, but such changes aren't easy. It takes a multitude of tweaks to change, say, Khmer into Byzantium for every aspect of the game. See what it takes to balance Netherlands correctly, and they only changed their spawn date.

I envisioned them to spawn in 335 AD with the following UHVs:
- control Italy and Egypt by 800 AD (historical 550 AD isn't doable)
- make Constantinople the most cultured and populous city of the world in 1000 AD
- never lose a city to Arabia and control Anatolia in 1500 AD

Three, while Prussia doesn't equal Germany, neither does Austria! Prussia and Austria should be two different civs, Austria when the HRE effectively became under their control, and Prussia during the rise of Frederick the Great. The vanilla Germany UHVs could be Prussia's, while Austria is more Medieval.

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Of course it doesn't. I doesn't matter how we call the "HRE civ" - it will be called HRE in the early game and later change to Austria. Remember that the HRE started out as "Kingdom of Germany" and only later shifted its center to Austria when the Habsburgs became de facto hereditary emperors.