GA/GM/GW are they all on GP counter?

Btw I mean Great Artists, Great Musicians and Great Writers.

Well title says it all, I'd imagine some tweaks to the Mayans may be in the works, but I've looked around and haven't found anything... Are the 3 new "Great Artists" on the GP counter? I keep reading stuff they can do, I'm just wondering since science and hammers no matter what are really really strong.

Currently the problem with Great Artists and Great Merchants is that you should never get them early game because a Great Scientist will get you to the proper techs quicker and a Great Engineer will let you snipe a key Wonder or two from players that might get to the techs faster than you. I somehow doubt that will change unless getting one of the new Great Artists doesn't increase the cost of getting other GPs.

I really don't like the Civ 5's system for Great People, because while you can specialize in something, I often leave my cities on default focus, and often end up getting specific people, often leaving the other ones out. So it worries how exactly the 3 new Great Peple are gonna affect that.

If they're not its really going to weaken abilities that add to GP production like Austria's UB and the Garden. Already Generals, Admirals, and Prophets are separate. Taking out Artists makes more than half the GP produced a different way. I would hardly even phrase the ability as increasing GP production at that point.

Yeah, given the number of slots we're getting for great works, I'm kinda worrying how the GP system will work for them. I mean, if every Writer, Musician, and Artist is going to increase GP costs by the same amount it's at now, then I'm struggling to see how you could get enough works to fill one city's worth of Works slots, let alone 3 or more. I guess the ideal is that it's done in a way that it still uses GP points but doesn't increase the cost of the next one by as much or something like that.

Well, in a way, I believe trading art works is one way of filling up, as it is needed to complete themeing bonuses.

turingmachine said:

If they're not its really going to weaken abilities that add to GP production like Austria's UB and the Garden. Already Generals, Admirals, and Prophets are separate. Taking out Artists makes more than half the GP produced a different way. I would hardly even phrase the ability as increasing GP production at that point.

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They can be generated in much the same way, just be on separate GP counts.

I don't really see how it would weaken the UB (although you don't play Austria just for the UB otherwise you are probably doing it wrong). If they are on the same count, Austria or otherwise you are still not going to produce artists until late game because you still need the hammer or tech to get into that late game in a winnable position.

If they are on separate counts, you still get all the benefit of the building, but if say you invest early hammers into cultural buildings, you won't be punished for not getting the much needed early science and/or hammers.

Even though I don't think it'll will really change anything with Austria... I do know a lot of us wouldn't mind. That damn UA makes me want to reset my game at times if I just see her on the map and don't think I can kill her early enough.

I'm expecting a new mechanic here - maybe something like: each GWAM (Great Writer/Artist/Musician) has a relatively high fixed amount of points to pop that doesn't rise and each point of culture in the city converts to a percentage modifier for the points. Making up numbers, let's say you pop a GWAM at 200 points, each specialist in a Guild building produces 2 /turn, and each point of culture multiplies this by 10%. So a city with 10 would pop a GWAM after 50 turns, a city with 100 would in 10 turns (numbers need balancing obviously).

This way in the early eras you'll see GWAMs very rarely, but the process speeds up in the later eras (which I think we can say safely mirrors reality) and is the opposite of the current GP mechanics.

Additionally, Dennis said that faith will be very important to getting GWAMs, so I also expect new beliefs that allow purchasing them with faith, probably added as one of the new Piety finisher beliefs.

What I want to know is how will they interact with faith. You could buy GA's through freedom but that must be scrapped as it would be quite op'd if you could only buy them through freedom. Instead I think you can either buy all the different artists after certain techs are researched, or through another policy tree (aesthethics?). What will replace GA's in freedom is another interesting question.

E: of course it can be possible that you can't buy GP's through ideologies alltogether

We know what GWAM are generate by allocating specialists in appropriate guilds. So the overall approach is the same as scientists, engineers, etc. Generals and admirals are much more distinctive. So I'd expect them to use the same mechanic as other GP. Probably there will be more wonders and social policies granting free great persons.

We need to wait for more info.

Yeah, hopefully they'll be on a separate counter. If they're on the same counter as scientists and engineers, we'll probably never see them. When do you ever produce anything other than engineers and scientists (maybe merchants if you have some big puppet cities) if you're going after a domination/diplomatic/science win?

wigwam said:

Yeah, hopefully they'll be on a separate counter.

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I expect the counter system to be completely revised. Not sure how, but with all new GP it looks just wrong.

If they all count differently then Mayan will be awesome as they could target all three in a row.

It'd be really cool and flavorful (but maybe overpowered) if you got one random GW/GA/GM at the start of each Golden Age.