Freedom ideology and science victory.

I play Immortal, Order is best for Space victory. 25% science from factories alone beats out anything freedom provides.

SCIENCE is the limit to a space victory, Freedom doesn't have anything remotely close to 25% more science per city. As to buying spaceship parts for money? In what games do you have every spaceship tech before you build your first spaceship part? I normally can build most parts but am still limited by a part i haven't teched yet. Building these parts before that tech has been researched is common, so buying them early is pointless...

Its abit annoying for me really, i want to go freedom for my 3-4 city tall civ. But i feel i have to go order to win faster.

@spfun I don't agree. The Order bonus is a flat 25% bonus yes it is good on a huge city but order doesnt help you get there. Considering that Ideologies kick in during the industrial and you are gunning specifically for a science vic in the best possible time consider this:

If you have tradition and 4 cities your pop will be around 20 in the 3 cities and around 26ish in the capital (perhaps 30 good tiles provided). Now assuming that you beeline research labs and medical centers by the time you hit the info era your pop will be along these lines for order and freedom respectively and the game will be almost over.

Order:
30+ in the 3 cities around 37 in the capital.

Freedom:
Around 45 in the capital, 40+ in the outlying cities.

Disclaimer: Under no circumstances these results are made with testing in mind and obviously parameters are different (due to the fact that I play random maps), however more or less I seem to get them consistently.

My experience thus far show a gap between the two forms of government in regards to science, a gap that favors freedom. I am not able to calculate the flat results but I believe that the difference is this: For a fast vic freedom is the way to go, if you want to slow down things though with Order you might catch up and surpass freedom when all cities on the map reach 50+ pop but is that viable?

EDIT: Space procurements is as useful as building the parts with GE. Both are situational and not something to depend on.

@pilot00, i win my games well before i can reach size 30 secondary cities, except for the capital. 250 turns or so is enough on standard settings/immortal. The 25% science boost helps boost RA's/ and the large amount of GS's i have saved up. The relatively small amount of time i have left in the game once I've reached Industrial, i need to get as much science as possible, freedoms 1 food per specialist and the academy bonus can't make up the difference of a 25% science boost in my 3-4 cities. I especially like Poland this expansion, i tend to win much faster with the free policies.

spfun said:

@pilot00, i win my games well before i can reach size 30 secondary cities, except for the capital. 250 turns or so is enough on standard settings/immortal. The 25% science boost helps boost RA's/ and the large amount of GS's i have saved up. The relatively small amount of time i have left in the game once I've reached Industrial, i need to get as much science as possible, freedoms 1 food per specialist and the academy bonus can't make up the difference of a 25% science boost in my 3-4 cities. I especially like Poland this expansion, i tend to win much faster with the free policies.

Click to expand...

I have explained multiple times that its not a 1 food per specialist and it doesn't work like that, on the grounds of not littering the thread I would ask you to read my dialogue with adwcta to see my observations if you dont mind . And OFC I am not taking academies into account since there wont be that many anyway, most of my GS are bulb ed in the info era. Size 30 in 250 turns is absolutely doable with freedom, it needs some micro but it is possible.

Luckily I have a save from my playthrough as Greece where I achieved all victory conditions by virtue of science (as usual I delayed my game). It seems from that particular playthrough I kept a save spot on finishing the research of industrialization and building the factories. I will replay the game, and choose order and finish it on the same turn and compare results. Hope the same cities will flip

My current stats with freedom in the end game are thus:

8 cities (4 puppets, 3 settled one annexed)
1863 beakers
Total pop from demographics: 82,298,000
Certainly not a good management on my part (first GNKs game ).

I am looking forward to what I can pull off with order.