Mutual Defense Pacts

In my current game I'm sucking up to Portugal because Maria is a babe founded the world congress. I've been peacful the whole game, and carefully managing a group of allied nations to the point where every-time I denounce someone from outside the group, everyone follows.

I decided to get a mutual defense pact with a bunch of people within this group cause... why not.

Assyria had been out there with the barbarians fighting for scraps of garbage I suppose they like to call cities for the first several ages. Recently, I noticed they hadn't been at war in a long time.
So I was like, "Hey Assyria, cool library dude, maybe you're not so bad after all, why don't you join our little league of amazing countries".
"Sure dude; cool elephants BTW."

So that was that. Sure enough, the rest of my minions friends immediately befriended him. He was ONE OF US.

then being the jerk he is he went to war with Portugal a couple turns later, dragging me in to the thing. "Time to trample this barbarian upstart" I think. I go to the diplomacy screen to get everyone behind me and...
"You've declared war on leader's you've made a declaration of friendship with!"
My spotless reputation is ruined and I've been kicked out of my own damned tree-house, what the hell is up with this is this a bug?

That's essentially the worst debuff to diplomacy you can get, nobody EVER forgets about that.

Defensive Pacts are risky and they have a very niche strategic value. If you have something worse losing (relationships with countries for example) you probably don't want to make them. Mostly if you're a small country that has good relationships with the big boys and you need their support to get by.

It's not a bug, you did declare war on a leader you made friends with, but not necessarily in your control.

Well this is not what I expected. Why even have the pact if it doesn't work as an alliance? If it's just going to auto DOW for you with all the same consequences as if you'd had no pact, why does it even exist?

I mean the whole purpose of an alliance is deterring attackers with the promise of mutual defense, if someone attacks one, they attack both. At least that's how I see it.

If all it does is auto DOW for you, how is that any different then me putting a post-it note on my monitor reminding me to attack anyone who attacks my friend? Then I'd even have a choice in the matter... why does this mechanic even exist in this form?

Abraxis said:

Well this is not what I expected. Why even have the pact if it doesn't work as an alliance? If it's just going to auto DOW for you with all the same consequences as if you'd had no pact, why does it even exist?

I mean the whole purpose of an alliance is deterring attackers with the promise of mutual defense, if someone attacks one, they attack both. At least that's how I see it.

If all it does is auto DOW for you, how is that any different then me putting a post-it note on my monitor reminding me to attack anyone who attacks my friend? Then I'd even have a choice in the matter... why does this mechanic even exist in this form?

Click to expand...

The defense pact is so that if someone ELSE declares war on the Civ, you got his back. It doesn't work if the Civ declared war (they are defending themselves from the attack made on them)

So not the other Civ that started it, it's someone else who decided to pick on him; their negative modifiers on that Civ was worth losing your friendship for (they hated them more than they liked you)

To me a Defense pact is sacred, and should only be kept to one civ you like the most, to avoid these types of awkward situations.

It exists to force the AI to DOW in your defence also.

You're taking the diplo hit because all the peeps in your treehouse have seen that your friendship declarations aren't very meaningful and they don't trust you as much. Though the diplo hit is for going to war with your friend, what they're really mad about in a role playing sense, and what is the cause for the breakdown of your alliance, is befriending a jerk into your inner circle in the first place.