Trade Routes

KrikkitTwo · Apr 25, 2006

Basically, yes

Although there is a mistake in the earlier post, trade routes are one way
so if
Athens has on its city trade screen
Rome =+2
Berlin = +3

That does not mean that Rome has Athens on ITs city trade screen.
(Rome could have )
Berlin=+4
Moscow =+1

The only rules are
1. for each foreign city you may have One route to it in your whole empire
so if you are the Greeks then
Athens
Rome=+4
Berlin=+3

Sparta CANNOT have
Rome +3
or
Berlin +2
It has to move on to Paris, Lonon, etc.

2. for each of your Own cities, it can only appear once per city

So for example if you are Greek (and Athens is a Large city), and you have no Open Borders they might look like this

Athens
Sparta +2
Thermopylae +2

Sparta
Athens+2
Thermopylae +1

Thermopyalae
Athens +2
Sparta +1

Olympus
Athens +2
Sparta +1

Sardinia
Athens +2
Sparta +1

Macedon
Athens +2
Sparta +1

Ephesus
Thermopylae +2
Sparta +1

Of course, because Distance also matters, so the best two cities for Ephesus are Not be the same as the best two cities for Olympus.

T_Khan · Aug 31, 2006

Are trade routes reciprocal (at all; it doesn't look like it from the above example)? Is there any bonus if they are? Is there any limit to the number of trade routes that can "link" to a single city?

CIVPhilzilla · Sep 2, 2006

Krikkitone said:
No it can have as many as 8 (hard coded)... in the actual game, the most it could have is

1(base) +1 (Currency) +2 (Great Lighthouse) +1(airport) +1 (Free Market) +1(Single Currency) = 7... this requires researching Flight and having Someone research Mass Media (to get the UN) while avoiding Corporation.

6 is a more realistically achievable # ,replace the 2 at Great Lighthouse with 1 by researching Corporation

+1 trade route with Cothon for Carthage.

MrCynical · Sep 4, 2006

Are trade routes reciprocal (at all; it doesn't look like it from the above example)? Is there any bonus if they are? Is there any limit to the number of trade routes that can "link" to a single city?

Trade routes aren't really reciprocal. A trade route from city A to city B does not imply a trade route from city B to city A, and there's no additional benefit if this is the case.

For the issue of how many trade routes can link to a city, this varies depending on whether the trade route is foreign or domestic. You can have any number of cities linked to one of your own cities by domestic trade routes. However each foreign city can only form a trade route to one of your cities.

tomaalimosh · Sep 7, 2006

this has been very useful.

Can you do something similar with explaining how the civic upkeep and military upkeep works?

I mean I know more cities means more upkeep, and further the city from the capital, bigger the upkeep... but that's kind of vague (I'm a control freak :scan:

)

I want to know exactly when and where I can afford to place a new city (if at all)

thanks

DocScott · Sep 13, 2006

I'm currently in a MP PitBoss Warlords game. I've successfully connected with a neighboring player (road + open borders); that's confirmed because we can trade resources. But none of our cities have established trade routes with the others'! All my domestic trade routes are +1, so it's not that the domestic routes are actually better than the foreign ones. Neither one of us has mercantilism; we're not that far along.

Is there some other condition required for trade to start up? Or is this some kind of bug?

Just so you know what level of mistake I'm likely to be making, I'm neither expert nor newbie: in SP games, monarch is a comfortable difficulty for me.

KrikkitTwo · Sep 17, 2006

Sounds like a bug... If you can
1. Trade Resources (indicating connection)
2. Have Open borders [not required for resource trade, but required for trade routes]
3. have no Mercantilism on either side

You should have trade routes...perhaps there is a delay in MP if you only just signed Open Borders or only just opened up the resource trade.

MiKa523 · Sep 17, 2006

Thanks for the info.

I'd love to have the distance factor reversed, thus closer foreign cities with the same size are prefered.
This would enable a more constant and especially regional spread of religion by trade routes which allows a better passive spread of the later religions and emphasizes forming of religious blocks.

Frisxo · Sep 18, 2006

Thanks for the thread. This has been confusing for me too.

Bottom line question:

If I have big cities and the other guy has small cities should I trade? As I understand things the other guy will receive more trade than I do (because my cities are bigger).

floppymoose · Sep 18, 2006

I have not confirmed this, but I *think* your own city's population places a cap on how much a trade route is worth. So my guess is that big to small either works out even for both, or better for big, but never better for small.

The bigtime trade game: Play Hannibal. Build cities on the coast wherever possible. Prefer spots with lots of food. Emphasize population over cottages. Build cothons. Make Great Lighthouse your #1 wonder priority. Slingshot to Astronomy. Have open borders with anyone possible. Free trade. Postpone Corporation. Enjoy.

When I do this on Prince I can keep up on research while pulling in over 100 gold per turn. I'm able to upgrade my entire army the moment I hit a new unit. All those Flank2+Mobility Numidians become elite Calvary. And those veteran city raider axeman become Grenadiers then Infantry.

malekithe · Sep 30, 2006

I was just looking through the SDK code pertaining to trade route values and arrived at a nearly identical formula to the one you've got in the original post. My only question, though, is about the "Cap" modifier of 25%. In your post you make it seem as if it only applies if the city is a capital city. In the code, though, it is simply dependent upon a call to CvCity::isConnectedToCapital(PlayerTypes ePlayer). This would seem to indicate that any city connected to its capital through roads or navigable waters would benefit from this 25% bonus.

BTW, the reason I was looking into this code is because it appears that Great Merchant trade route values are completely dependent upon the value of a regular trade route from the target city to your capital. Gold = S * (500 + (200 * T)), where S is the game speed modifier (150% on Epic) and T is the value of a regular trade route that would appear on the target city's screen were it trading with your capital.

montypython · Feb 16, 2007

Hey guys. I'm going to resurect this post, and hopefully you all won't get upset. As a civ veteran, I'm used to being able to make a Caravan unit and send it to any city I want to establish a trade route. From what I have read here, it's sound more like it's done automatically in Civ IV than a manual process. Is there anyway to deliberately establish a trade route between any to cities, foreign or domestic?

Thanks!

Roland Johansen · Feb 16, 2007

montypython said:
Hey guys. I'm going to resurect this post, and hopefully you all won't get upset. As a civ veteran, I'm used to being able to make a Caravan unit and send it to any city I want to establish a trade route. From what I have read here, it's sound more like it's done automatically in Civ IV than a manual process. Is there anyway to deliberately establish a trade route between any to cities, foreign or domestic?

Thanks!

No, you can't.

Welcome to civfanatics! :beer:

vorlon_mi · Mar 9, 2007

Sorry for the :bump:

again, but there was one question asked earlier
that I did not see answered clearly.

How often are the trade routes recalculated? Every turn? Every N turns?

As my cities grow, or more importantly, as my borders open or close with
an AI, the best / most lucrative / feasibly connected trade routes
will change. So, it would seem that it would have to be every turn, yes?

Roland Johansen · Mar 9, 2007

vorlon_mi said:
Sorry for the again, but there was one question asked earlier
that I did not see answered clearly.

How often are the trade routes recalculated? Every turn? Every N turns?

As my cities grow, or more importantly, as my borders open or close with
an AI, the best / most lucrative / feasibly connected trade routes
will change. So, it would seem that it would have to be every turn, yes?

I share your observations so I also guess every turn.

sylvanllewelyn · Mar 10, 2007

I much prefer the current system of cities automatically picking far trade routes over close ones. It's also historically accurate, and distant routes bring more exotic luxury goods which yield higher prices. In the past, values of goods can differ hugely between lands. Classic examples that made sense before but is silly now:

- North and Central Africa: gold for salt
- Asia and Europe: the silk road, for precious stones
- Native Americans: Beaver fur for guns
- Britain and Qing China: Tea for silver

As to religious spread via trade routes, I'd much prefer to have religious allies away from myself, so I have space to expand. Better to have your allies help you sandwich your neighbours.

baboon · Apr 13, 2007

ChangHao said:
so... foreign trade routes <- way to go?
but i hate open borders with AI until i've grabbed all the land i want...
by which time i'll be broke

I usually get open borders with everyone besides my direct neighbours. After all land is taken I try to get open borders with them too.

Tatran · May 7, 2007

It's confusing to see the trade icon in the right bottom of the screen,
but no foreign trade comes in for zillion of years.
Religion did spread to one of the foreign cities.
So, what's going on?
There isn't any connection by road or river, but there's a coastal path.
Still there are some coastal tiles covered by fog. After removing the
coastal fog finally the foreign trade routes showed up in the human cities.

50_dollar_bag · May 7, 2007

Tatran said:
It's confusing to see the trade icon in the right bottom of the screen,
but no foreign trade comes in for zillion of years.
Religion did spread to one of the foreign cities.
So, what's going on?
There isn't any connection by road or river, but there's a coastal path.
Still there are some coastal tiles covered by fog. After removing the
coastal fog finally the foreign trade routes showed up in the human cities.

Perhaps the other civ had mapped out the coast and therefore had a coastal path.

Which leads me to a question: If I don't have astronomy and sign open borders with an inter-continental Civ and we are both in something other than mercantilsim, will the other civ benefit from increased trade from my cities?

Mutineer · May 8, 2007

Krikkitone said:
No it can have as many as 8 (hard coded)... in the actual game, the most it could have is

1(base) +1 (Currency) +2 (Great Lighthouse) +1(airport) +1 (Free Market) +1(Single Currency) = 7... this requires researching Flight and having Someone research Mass Media (to get the UN) while avoiding Corporation.

6 is a more realistically achievable # ,replace the 2 at Great Lighthouse with 1 by researching Corporation

Not entirelly correct.
+1 Cotton
so, max = 8

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Immortal

Chieftain

Reagan Republican

Deity

Warlord

Chieftain

Immortal

Nerdish by Nature

Chieftain

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King

Chieftain

Deity

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Deity

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