Jon Shafer leaves Firaxis!

course you stay in the loop

and get consulting fees, software update fees , connections , lunches and perhaps a drink with some like minded folk some of which are gals in nice outfits

the evidence is clear- Programmer Confidants in the Valley of the Beast Code
 
Can you speak for them? How do you know from their POV the game is satisfactory?

It's just my impression. I haven't heard any reason for them to be terribly disappointed. I think if they were trying to please people like you and me they would have gone about the whole process differently, they would have built on the strengths of Civ IV rather than discarding a bunch of its core assumptions and embarking on an ambitious simplification. In other words, I think they are smart enough that they didn't really expect you to like it, or at least they didn't consider that among their top priorities.
 
I think they could have acheved their tactical goals in a strategy game. Lots of games have done it before. When I first started playing civ3, I lamented the fact that battles were not resolved in a separate mode (a battle map). I think Civ would be be best if it followed this model:

- Unlimited units per tile, but having too many units on a tile would cause them to lose HP, based on overcrowding. More soldiers = more HP loss
- Units can be joined into an army to alleviate this somewhat. (It takes 1 turn to enter an army).
- Movement of opposing units onto a tile begins tactical layer (a battle map).
- The tactical layer (battle map) can be auto-resolved, just like current Civ combat results.
- Depending on the tile of battle, a battle map opens. In this 1UPT environment, there are far more tiles than in the strategic layer. (Hills would present a hilly map, forests a forest map, city a city map, and some tiles may have their own map)
- Building a wall/fort/castle would/could involve actually editing a battle map.
- Important battle sites could be fought on planned battle maps
- Often the same battle map could be used on several different tiles. The battle map represents a zoomed-in layer. It would have fewer tiles than a current "duel" map. So 1 battle map might be used to describe a battle taking place on 6-10 strategic tiles.
- Unit location on the tile would be determined by previous location. (If you were fortified then you place your units first. Unfortified units enter from one of several positions on the map. If a unit enters the tile from the north, that unit appears in the north on the tactical map)
- I imagine that many people (like Jon) would play set-piece tactical battles as a multiplayer mode.
- Empire builders may just auto-resolve all battles.
- I would auto-resolve simple conflicts - but I would control important battles.
- I would also like to be able to watch battles take place - and perhaps step in if the simulation is going poorly.

Overall Ideas:
The strategic mode and tactical mode would be separate. Tiles on the stategic map represent more of a region. A unit of archers on the strategic map might be 3 archers on the battle map. Perhaps HP on strategic map would result in units at the tactical level. It would be very easy to program strategic ai, because no combat would take place. Tactical AI would be set-piece. This is an easier alternative than our current system, and it is more historically accurate as well. (Archers can't fire across the english channel. In fact, they can't fire until they are in a battle map).

I maybe old school, but you seems to describing master of magic...
 
I maybe old school, but you seems to describing master of magic...

I imagine I'm describing lots of games...

Star Wars: Rebellion is the only one I can think of right now, but I've played several older games that employed this technique. Final Fantasy 2. Zelda: A Link to the Past. In these two cases you moved around on a larger map, but actually engaged in combat (albeit RPG style) in a battle mode.

It would be awesome in a Civ context. I loved Civ4, but I always wanted to recreate famous battles. Dual modes would allow this.
 
I think they could have acheved their tactical goals in a strategy game. Lots of games have done it before. When I first started playing civ3, I lamented the fact that battles were not resolved in a separate mode (a battle map). I think Civ would be be best if it followed this model:

- Unlimited units per tile, but having too many units on a tile would cause them to lose HP, based on overcrowding. More soldiers = more HP loss
- Units can be joined into an army to alleviate this somewhat. (It takes 1 turn to enter an army).
- Movement of opposing units onto a tile begins tactical layer (a battle map).
- The tactical layer (battle map) can be auto-resolved, just like current Civ combat results.
- Depending on the tile of battle, a battle map opens. In this 1UPT environment, there are far more tiles than in the strategic layer. (Hills would present a hilly map, forests a forest map, city a city map, and some tiles may have their own map)
- Building a wall/fort/castle would/could involve actually editing a battle map.
- Important battle sites could be fought on planned battle maps
- Often the same battle map could be used on several different tiles. The battle map represents a zoomed-in layer. It would have fewer tiles than a current "duel" map. So 1 battle map might be used to describe a battle taking place on 6-10 strategic tiles.
- Unit location on the tile would be determined by previous location. (If you were fortified then you place your units first. Unfortified units enter from one of several positions on the map. If a unit enters the tile from the north, that unit appears in the north on the tactical map)
- I imagine that many people (like Jon) would play set-piece tactical battles as a multiplayer mode.
- Empire builders may just auto-resolve all battles.
- I would auto-resolve simple conflicts - but I would control important battles.
- I would also like to be able to watch battles take place - and perhaps step in if the simulation is going poorly.

Overall Ideas:
The strategic mode and tactical mode would be separate. Tiles on the stategic map represent more of a region. A unit of archers on the strategic map might be 3 archers on the battle map. Perhaps HP on strategic map would result in units at the tactical level. It would be very easy to program strategic ai, because no combat would take place. Tactical AI would be set-piece. This is an easier alternative than our current system, and it is more historically accurate as well. (Archers can't fire across the english channel. In fact, they can't fire until they are in a battle map).

I would not like a total war system but this I would go in for.:goodjob:
 
Something like that is also in my mind. Hopefully AI will not be weak in urban or siege battles like in TotalWar series.
 
Something like that is also in my mind. Hopefully AI will not be weak in urban or siege battles like in TotalWar series.

Believe me, if total war, a game with ALOT of experience can't get this right,
civilization neither can...
 
there's more hope for SD then Firaxis at this point to me.

I would not be shocked if Sid "Respawns" somewhere else at some point right now.

(then again, I'm of the camp that blames 2k for Civ V, though we'll never know 100%)
 
Yeah, mandatory Steamworks, DLC, simplification of game, cutting of staff during development. I really don't think Sid would have signed off on any of that of his own volition. I wouldn't be shocked if Sid left Firaxis to be quite honest.

Those all sound like suit-imposed policies. Also I've heard some rumblings (don't wish to reveal source, but wasn't just a random schmoe) that morale at Firaxis was low.
 
Yeah, mandatory Steamworks, DLC, simplification of game, cutting of staff during development.

So you don't have any evidence that any of these ideas came from 2K rather than Firaxis, but you revere Sid Meier so you think he would have made "better" decisions on his own. Right?

None of the things you list seem like substantial problems with the game, anyway. Most people here seem to think that the biggest problems are entirely of the design team's own making.

If the budget were reduced in the middle of the project, for no reason, that would certainly have some impact. But I think it's pretty speculative to assume that.
 
Does your "camp" have any evidence at all that 2K influenced Civ V in any way?

It seems sort of like blaming space zombies.

2k put out a relase on there forum while ago befor they took it down saying that john lead devloper wanted to take the game in a diffrent driction and that it is up to the lead designers to designe the games thats what they are paid for.
 
so , can we end up the time of building everything by clicking "Buy" button?
 
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