Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
My point is that some highly-respected historians take what you call the "Austrian version" of events seriously, so it's not reasonable to dismiss a person's argument on those grounds.
Conservative revisionism of WW1
- Thread starter sherbz
- Start date
I thought you might have a point. I didn't dismiss any version though. I pointed out that it wasn't the whole story. Which I'm sure you can find in said book as well. It's not like that after over 100 years some crucial details will still be unveiled about the events leading up to august 1914. It's interesting, by the way, that you seem to ignore the allusion in the title of that book: Sleepwalkers.
schlaufuchs
Break My Heart
You say that, but as I recall, French military documents are declassified after 100 years.
And, if I recall past threads correctly, most German (and Russian) documents were hidden behind the wall until 1990. When they became accessible to historians, they changed the perspective significantly.
Verbose
Deity
Not quite, as far as I understand. The last batch still classified will be released after 100 years. The bulk of it was released for public scrutiny already in 1964-1968 however.
As far as I know, it's more or less exactly the same for the UK? Afaik the last documents relating to things like the Étaples mutiny will be released in 2017 at the same time as the last batch of French documents (supposed to be somehwo politial in nature) relating to the 1917 mutinies will also be cleared.
Again, is this relevant for events in August 1917? WW I wasn't started by the military; it was a result of a complete breakdown of European diplomacy (and prepared in advance by two mutually exclusive alliance systems). And let's not forget: the outbreak of war was met with overwhelming enthusiasm at the time.
It's obvious you've not read anything recent on the war. Even a revisionist like Niall Ferguson acknowledges that the British lies about Belgian obligations and similar German propaganda about Franco-Russian plots to partition Germany were spread specifically because the initial announcement of war was NOT popular, except perhaps in Austria-Hungary. Even then, the Hungarians were decidedly concerned that the war would strengthen Austria's position in the Dual Monarchy.
The diplomatic manoeuvrings surrounding the outbreak of WWI are quite well known by now. Your refusal to countenance Traitorfish's offer of a highly-reputable source is a sign that you aren't really debating this honestly, but simply reverting to the "rah-rah, it was the Central Powers' fault" argument spread after the war by the British and French.
schlaufuchs
Break My Heart
And the Germans, depending on which Sonderweg historian you're reading.
I thought I covered them under "Central Powers." But yes, Fischer and co. put most of the blame on Germany, conflating the ridiculous - and unofficial - post-war "Septeber Programme" with pre-war aims.
Propaganda is a basic part of modern war. The fact that is was spread can hardly be counted as proof that the outbreak of war wasn't greeted with enthusiasm. As you mention yourself, war was greeted enthusiastically in Austria-Hungary. That such entusiasm shoud not be shared by all nations involved kind of speaks for itself. It was a completely unnecesary war that dragged on for 4 years and ultimately toppled 3 of the major powers' governments involved, including Austria-Hungary. Even assuming that the Centrals could have won, this would have left Austria-Hungary with another large ethnic group in an empire already fomenting with incipient disruptive nationalism. Hungarian concerns would then have been well considered.
Referencing a source does not entail simply linking to a book title, in case you were unaware. You also seem to contradict yourself by starting with 'The diplomatic manoeuvrings surrounding the outbreak of WWI are quite well known by now.' That was exactly my point. What your 'rah-rah' has to do with anything is beyond me.
So yoa don't actually have a point beyond telling me I'm wrong, because reasons. Okay then. We know to discount your points in this discussion.
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