History Article: Macedonia and Tzar samuil.

Miroslav I said:

Nedim, can you tell us is your last name on ić?
Like many other last names in Bosnia...
Like many other last names in Serbia...
Like mine, too...

Miroslav

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That is true, but thats a slavic prefix on the last name, and the Slavs came to the Balkans around the 8th century. Alexander clearly wasn't Slavic.

This is clearly another part of the Fyromian conspiracy f-in-the-a the entirety of South-East Europe.

Fyromians - causing havoc since ~1300 B.C.(E.)

never mind

NedimNapoleon said:

That is true, but thats a slavic prefix on the last name, and the Slavs came to the Balkans around the 8th century. Alexander clearly wasn't Slavic.

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Can you tell us what was the conclusions made by the latest researches done in genetics codes?

I think this thread will help greatly now that it is resurrected

I had sincere hope that Macedonia would never come up in WH.

That, of course, was a foolish hope.

Well, according to this website about Ancient languages:

http://www.oocities.org/linguaeimperii/index_en.html

This site provides information about 80 languages spoken in Roman Times (in the Empire territories and in adjacent regions of the Empire). These languages are classified genetically into language families. For each language detailed information about the number of inscriptions is provided. Also a brief and rigurous grammatical description is reported for each language based on the data of the language (for some languages this information is very scanty).

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Macedonian language was one not one of Greek dialects:



Here is a map of Greek languages from this website:

http://www.oocities.org/linguaeimperii/Greek/greek_es.html

And why should someone trust the site you cite and not an other one which states that Macedonian was a Greek dialect?

Anyway, I believe that Greece has lost the game for many years. We should recognize FYROM as either "Republic of Northern Macedonia" or "Republic of Slavic Macedonia".

Domen said:

Well, according to this website about Ancient languages:

http://www.oocities.org/linguaeimperii/index_en.html



Macedonian language was one not one of Greek dialects:



Here is a map of Greek languages from this website:

http://www.oocities.org/linguaeimperii/Greek/greek_es.html

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Is that a comedy site?

Cause - among other nice stuff- it seems that Achilles was not Greek either (Thessaly apparently is not in ancient Greece)
Also Kerkyra/Corfu isn't Greek either. I suppose it wasn't a Corinthian colony in the first place. So much fake history by the ancients
TLDR: doesn't look legit.

What researches in genetics tell us about our real origin?
Anyone ever try to find anything about that?

The idea is that shared genetic markers over distance suggest population movement. However, it has no real independent explanatory power as of yet. Rather, it can either supplement traditional sources (offering corroboration) or cast doubt on those sources (suggesting that ethnic migration was a less significant factor than otherwise assumed).

45,770 - 44,010 years ago in western Siberia lived people with haplogroup MPS, among descendants of which is haplogroup P, among descendants of which are haplogroups Q and R, among descendants of which are haplogroups R2 and R1, among descendants of which are haplogroups R1a and R1b:

"Genome sequence of a 45,000-year-old modern human from western Siberia":

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v514/n7523/full/nature13810.html

Haplogroup MPS is also known as haplogroup K(xLT):

http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/palaeolithicdna.shtml

That prehistoric Siberian with haplogroup MPS was so called Ust'-Ishim man:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ust'-Ishim_man

Ust'-Ishim man was already partially descended from Neanderthals:

Neanderthal DNA in modern humans occurs in broken fragments; however, the Neanderthal DNA in Ust'-Ishim man occurs in clusters, indicating that Ust'-Ishim man lived in the immediate aftermath of the genetic interchange.[3] The genomic sequencing of Ust'-Ishim man has led to refinement of the estimated date of mating between the two hominin species to between 52,000 and 58,000 years ago.[3]

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East Asian haplogroup Q, Indo-European haplogroup R1 and Dravidian haplogroup R2 are - ultimately - also descended from that population:

https://physicalanthropologymzi.wordpress.com/

https://physicalanthropologymzi.wordpress.com/2014/10/29/from-ancient-bone-to-modern-human/

By comparing Ust’-Ishim’s genome to various groups of modern and ancient humans, the researchers are filling in gaps in the map of initial human migrations around the globe. They found that he is as genetically similar to present-day East Asians as to ancient genomes found in Western Europe and Siberia, suggesting that the population he was part of split from the ancestors of both Europeans and East Asians, prior to their divergence from each other.

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christos200 said:

Anyway, I believe that Greece has lost the game for many years. We should recognize FYROM as either "Republic of Northern Macedonia" or "Republic of Slavic Macedonia".

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Or you could just stop acting like a bunch of spoilt brats and recognise them as "Macedonia"....

Everybody has a right to self-determination, so I have no problem with Macedonian citizens calling themselves whatever they please, being a separate nation, etc. What really irks me is the language. It's clear as day that 'Macedonian' is a Bulgarian dialect, it's even much easier to understand for Bulgarians than many of the other different dialects spoken in Bulgaria proper. So this is what I'd like to see: just as US citizens call themselves Americans but acknowledge the fact that they speak English, so the Macedonians can continue to define themselves as Macedonian, but admit they're speaking Bulgarian. History will always be subject to interpretation. Language is a fact.

PhroX said:

Or you could just stop acting like a bunch of spoilt brats and recognise them as "Macedonia"....

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That is a big no, because Northern Greece is known as Macedonia and recognizing FYROM as Macedonia recognizes their claim to the region.

Ah, politics and history, a marriage made in hell.

Mize said:

Everybody has a right to self-determination, so I have no problem with Macedonian citizens calling themselves whatever they please, being a separate nation, etc. What really irks me is the language. It's clear as day that 'Macedonian' is a Bulgarian dialect, it's even much easier to understand for Bulgarians than many of the other different dialects spoken in Bulgaria proper. So this is what I'd like to see: just as US citizens call themselves Americans but acknowledge the fact that they speak English, so the Macedonians can continue to define themselves as Macedonian, but admit they're speaking Bulgarian. History will always be subject to interpretation. Language is a fact.

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Unfortunately, they'd lose their special snowflake status, and they'd become easily influenced by evil Bulgarians with megaphones.

christos200 said:

That is a big no, because Northern Greece is known as Macedonia and recognizing FYROM as Macedonia recognizes their claim to the region.

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No it doesn't. At least, there's no reason the two go hand-in-hand.

Quote: It(Macedonia) is a poor, barren place with no Hellenic ties or history. Greece has the beach-front property (Aegean), and the economy differential between the two countries would only create problems for the richer one (Greece). (end quote)

You are contradicting yourself with the first part of this statement.
Modern Greece's rich? In debt perhaps.

(quote) In any case, all historians admit that by Roman times the ancient Macedonians were fully homogenized with the rest of Greeks, and that Macedonia stopped existing as a separate socio-cultural entity some 600 years before any contact with the first Slavs in the Balkans. (end quote)

That's because Macedonians conquered part of mainland Greece and some of the rest were more than happy to join in with the Macedonians after Alexander of Macedon did the unthinkable, conquer the mighty Persian Empire!

(quote) The Vergina Sun, the emblem of Philip's dynasty, symbolizes the birth of our nation. It was the first time (4th century BCE) that the Greek mainland (city-states and kingdoms) with the same language, culture, and religion were united against the enemies of Asia in one league. At the same time the fractured Greek world grew conscious of its unity. And, in this sense, we have never been apart since then. The `Sun' was excavated in Greece in 1978, and it is sacred to us.

Before Alexander and Macedonians Greeks were too busy fighting each other. How did the Thebans welcome Alexander's father in lower Greece, wasn't there a war?

(quote) After usurping the name and the flag, surprise! They start claiming that Greeks in Macedonia (Greek) are a FYROM minority. After all we all identify as Macedonians. Thus, we must be the same...

They do not consider Greek speakers, such as yourself, to be ones of their own, Slavic Macedonians.


Although I've got to admit I do not totally disagree with your post I've got a different opinion about some of it's points.
My points:
1. Bulgaria has nothing to do with the original, Ancient Macedonia, so please stop mentioning them as having any rights to the name.
2. Your anti Slavic stance is quite disturbing, Greece 's been through more wars than any other nation in history, yet you choose this post Yugoslav state as your embargo target?
3. Macedonians used cavalry(companions) to a much further extent than other Greeks, they had Thracians as their neighbours, perhaps they were more closely related to Thracians in some way than they were to Greeks? You couldn't possibly claim Thracian as being Greek as well?
Forgot, they didn't conquer Persia, so not worthy.

I'd say give them (FYROM) an ultimatum, drop the ancient Macedonian flag, to which factually they have no rights, and then let them call their land whatever they want.
However, I know you will never go for it.

Ps. It amazes me you mention how the Catholics were bent on eradicating the Greek Orthodox Church yet you make such stubborn fuss about your Greek Orthodox brethren, the Slavic Macedonians.

This is an appropriately messed-up post for a rather messy topic. Quote button is your friend.