Will Hitler be seen in a more positive way in the far future?

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Dude, you accused me of being an anti-Semite for denouncing Zionism. I am Jewish.

ARGENTINA IS WHIIIITE!

Seriously, the whole Zionism debate is a non-issue, and especially now that a Jewish-majority state currently exists in the Holy land. Debating it has become pointless since 1948. The unhealthy attention to Israel has for 90% been group-think behavior, and only 10% rational arguments. And nobody has really benefited from it save from the "quality" newspapers to increase the number of issues and third world despots looking for a convenient scapegoat to maintain power. It is really sad to see otherwise decent people pay serious attention to it, as if it were an issue to the gravity it is usually presented as.
 
^ Indeed, airstrikes levelling populated palestinian areas with many palestinians still in the houses they refused to see destroyed but failed to save anyway, is nothing much to make a fuss about.
I mean it's not like the israeli government did not politely ask the residents to leave the apartment buildings so that they could be fired upon with missiles.

tl: dr: I am sure many jewish people are just great, like many people of any other nationality. Their government is one of the worst ones around nowdays though.
 
^ Indeed, airstrikes levelling populated palestinian areas with many palestinians still in the houses they refused to see destroyed but failed to save anyway, is nothing much to make a fuss about.
I mean it's not like the israeli government did not politely ask the residents to leave the apartment buildings so that they could be fired upon with missiles.

More people were killed in conflicts that you probably barely heard of, including Nagarno-Karabakh and current conflicts in Congo. Of course, Hamas is completely innocent, and we don't to bother about the fact Israelis (including Arabs) enjoy more civil and political rights than under any Arab country, let alone the North Korean style totalitarianism of Hamas. Even if Israel bombed civilians on purpose, it would still be a lesser evil than most of the Palestinian political leadership.

I am sure many jewish people are just great, like many people of any other nationality. Their government is one of the worst ones around nowdays though.

Israelis != Jews. And besides, Israel is by far the best government of the Mideast. Anyone would fare better living in Israeli territory than in unoccupied Palestinian territory, which is a corrupt authoritarian third world despotism. And please do note that I would have supported Palestine the reverse would have been true.
 
I wouldn't say that Nato agrees with you. Remember the KLA heroes and the evil genocidal serbs? ;)

Pretty much the same game here with 'black dilluted with some grey' and 'white dilluted with some grey' terms. You can never justify firebombing actual apartment blocks with people in them, like the israeli government has the nasty habbit of ordering. The moment you do, you are no longer able to discuss anything about the value of life, let alone general ethics.
 
Pretty much the same game here with 'black dilluted with some grey' and 'white dilluted with some grey' terms. You can never justify firebombing actual apartment blocks with people in them, like the israeli government has the nasty habbit of ordering. The moment you do, you are no longer able to discuss anything about the value of life, let alone general ethics.

I'm not saying it is justified, but I am saying that despite this, Israel is still the better side. No side is ever fully upright, not even (what you believe is) the better side. The moment you think in terms of moral absolutism, you'll end up in a similar situation as a Commie or Libertarian: A boring person with no real knowledge of actual real-life situations and a stunted view of how humanity and life works.
 
I'm not saying it is justified, but I am saying that despite this, Israel is still the better side. No side is ever fully upright, not even (what you believe is) the better side. The moment you think in terms of moral absolutism, you'll end up in a similar situation as a Commie or Libertarian: A boring person with no real knowledge of actual real-life situations and a stunted view of how humanity and life works.

I am pretty sure that my sentence with the clear meaning that sending missiles against apartment buildings with civilians in them is repugnant nomatter what, is not any kind of moral absolutism, given that most people are unreservedly against murdering civilians, and you should be too, i may add.
Moral discussion usually begins after the two parties agree that murder of non-combatants is never acceptable, nor a matter of "well the other side is worse".
 
I am pretty sure that my sentence with the clear meaning that sending missiles against apartment buildings with civilians in them is repugnant nomatter what, is not any kind of moral absolutism, given that most people are unreservedly against murdering civilians, and you should be too, i may add.
Moral discussion usually begins after the two parties agree that murder of non-combatants is never acceptable, nor a matter of "well the other side is worse".

Israel tries very hard not to hit civilians. That said, morality is first and foremost about your own values. I'd rather die in a bombardment than live under conditions of servitude. I care less about the values Israel supposedly violates than those that are being violated by the Hamas government or even Fatah. Since there exists no side that does not murder non-combatants, you can do nothing but side the second-best option. This is not the same as "they do it too" or "they are worse", but rather, recognizing that better options only exist in a world we do not live in.
 
Yeah, bbi. You know what I'm talkin' about.
 
Being Jewish does not mean, that you cannot be an anti-Semite.

Why couldn't Plotinus have deleted his post ALONG with my refutation? I've never accused anyone on this forum of being anti-Semitic.

I am pretty sure that my sentence with the clear meaning that sending missiles against apartment buildings with civilians in them is repugnant nomatter what, is not any kind of moral absolutism, given that most people are unreservedly against murdering civilians, and you should be too, i may add.
Moral discussion usually begins after the two parties agree that murder of non-combatants is never acceptable, nor a matter of "well the other side is worse".

Killing civilians as collateral is NEVER OK? Well, just lay out your ethical justification and I'm sure the philosophers will snap that right up. Hiding behind civilians = free pass to do whatever one pleases!
 
Being Jewish does not mean, that you cannot be an anti-Semite.
That's true, but we're talking about me here, not a generalised Other. Do you honestly believe I am an anti-Semite? PM me the answer if you don't want it public.
 
Nor does being pro-Zionist, cough cough.

I do not follow this. Are you referring to the idea that the Jews should be forcefully deported to Palestine from Europe? That's stretching the term a little, no?

Personally, I think that the goal of Zionism should be the term "Jew" falling out of common speech and being replaced with "Israeli." The Israeli nationality doesn't exist any more than the Afghani or Austro-Hungarian, and it causes plenty of abuse when some Israeli Arabs claim that they are also Israeli and therefore deserve the state to be rechristened to suit their nationality. Israel is a Jewish state, and whether or not it "should" be is irrelevant. It cannot be made into something else.
 
I do not follow this. Are you referring to the idea that the Jews should be forcefully deported to Palestine from Europe? That's stretching the term a little, no?

Personally, I think that the goal of Zionism should be the term "Jew" falling out of common speech and being replaced with "Israeli." The Israeli nationality doesn't exist any more than the Afghani or Austro-Hungarian, and it causes plenty of abuse when some Israeli Arabs claim that they are also Israeli and therefore deserve the state to be rechristened to suit their nationality. Israel is a Jewish state, and whether or not it "should" be is irrelevant. It cannot be made into something else.
Yes, because no one who is not Jewish is allowed to live in Israel?
 
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