All Leaders Challenge Game 19: Sumer/Gilgamesh

Well, those of you pushing for me to regenrate the map were right. As I played into the first round with the original map, I discovered that I was (a) isolated and (b) without copper.

and (c) without iron :eek:! i'm playing it out, having fun, but you know me, i'm not an early rusher and i'm not trying to demonstrate gilga's specific stuff.

looking at the new start ... i think maybe you should learn bronze-working RealSoonNow.

edit: "I changed the number of continents, as recommended, from 3 to 2. That should mean I don't end up isolated again, I should think." you are not isolated this time. i can neither confirm nor deny any other facts, rumors, innuendos, blah blah etc. i loaded the save then asked hubby to peek in worldbuilder and tell me whether you're all alone on a big island. he said "no, not all alone." meanwhile i checked my laundry. he comes in so handy!
 
People, please discontinue posting spoilers in this thread, even in spoiler tags. It corrupts the advice.

Now this is an interesting start. Bronze working is a priority to clear out all of the forests.
 
Settle in place.

Mining -> BW seem like two good techs to start witih. Worker first, farm the rice and then chop out whatever you want to go for: settlers, vultures or wonders.

(When was the last time we got an isolated-start ALC, anyway?)
 
Unless the warrior moving west finds gold or something settle in place and take advantage of the forrsts to chop.

Good move with the map regen.
 
I still don't understand why you'd want to settle on the plains hill unless you're Imperialistic, don't you get more hammers if you mine the hill instead of settling it?

Anyways I'd suggest moving the warrior I NE, assuming that you settle in place.

I'd settle in place as it's difficult to see more of the terrain around us because of so many forest.

The bright side of having lots of forest is the extra hammer boost from chopping so BW first is a good choice.

And worker first because you can irrigate that Rice and later chop once you have BW, you may want to build your 2nd workers when you hit 2 Pop if you want to nab GW and Oracle quickly, especially on Emp.

But I suggest that you ignore Oracle and pursue GW and show the people how to infiltrate and steal lots of techs, Stealing techs with Gspies is worth more then the free tech from Oracle in my opinion, especially on Emp level where more AIs will probably out tech you but it's always nice to get both.

There's the problem of polluting the GP pool is you build the Oracle with the GW in the same city. Here's the bright side, if an AI does get the free tech with Oracle you could steal that tech later with your Gspy lol.

So Tech order should be Mining=>BW=>Masonry(GW)
 
I still don't understand why you'd want to settle on the plains hill unless you're Imperialistic, don't you get more hammers if you mine the hill instead of settling it?

you do get more hammers if the hill is mined. the advantage of settling on the plains hill is that you get the (reduced) number of free hammers every turn. from now until 2050. working a real mine is great, but you have to find the food to support somebody working a tile that doesn't provide any.
 
Ha - THAT'll show all those folks who were posting spoilers.

I'd probably push the warrior NE, and if nothing interesting appeared settle 1W.


I still don't understand why you'd want to settle on the plains hill unless you're Imperialistic, don't you get more hammers if you mine the hill instead of settling it?

KMad already pointed out that settling on a plains hill generates an extra hammer that you don't get when you settle on a grassland hill.

Other considerations include that moving over puts you adjacent to the rice tile, so you will grow faster at the start, and the fact that a 1F/3P tile is generally stronger than a 0F/4P tile (as a rule 1F > 1P, and because there is food on that tile, you can build a cottage instead of a mine if you prefer).
 
The problem with moving 1W is that the tiles 2S/1E and 2E/1N are very likely going to have another resource of some type. You've only got one showing so far, another one is a virtual certainty. But by moving 1W, you'd lose both of those squares.

Bh
 
Moving west would also mean fewer river tiles in the city radius. I'd still move 1W for the increased starting production and growth though.

Edit: So let's hope there's a second resource to the west and not to the east! Move the warrior 1SW like you said. :)
 
Settle in place or move next to the river so you can use a levi with steampower, if you move to the river though you will lose your only known food resource. I think this capital needs to be a total production city with all those nice hills and plains forests around. You may want to move the capital though if you like a higher commerce capital.

I seem to get these capitals all too often tons of production but no levi access and tough decisions about mines and cottages. I'm working on a specialist economy that transfers farms back and forth with workshops for high production times and high research times.
 
Once again, I have rice to take advantage of one of Gilgamesh's starting techs, and look at all those forests! Since Priesthood is an early tech target for me in order to build Ziggurats, maybe I should think about chopping the Oracle?
Absolutely, it'll be kind of a waste not to do so. And maybe go for MC, an early hammermultiplier would make your capital a wonderful productioncity. Access to copper, a granary and barracks + forge (all chopped/whipped) and you can start pumping out those Vultures really early.
I think the Warrior should move 1 SW onto the plains forest south of the rice. That's to get more information regarding the possibility of moving the Settler onto the plains hill 1W of his current position.
Agree on the warrior moving 1SW.
Moving the settler 1W would bring the rice immidiately inside the border and thus justify a worker as first build. Also, the hill 1W does not have food, making it harder to work than the hill the settler is currently standing on.
If settling in place, though, I would build a warrior, maybe even 2,(send him/them exploring), then worker --> settler. It'll take some time before the worker has something to do other than roadbuilding, since you'll have to wait for borderpop + mining/BW.

(and that start put an end to the debate about boats and seafood :D)
 
Absolutely, it'll be kind of a waste not to do so. And maybe go for MC, an early hammermultiplier would make your capital a wonderful productioncity. Access to copper, a granary and barracks + forge (all chopped/whipped) and you can start pumping out those Vultures really early.
This would open up the Pyramids slingshot, but I don't know if that's even feasible on Emperor with a non-philosophical leader.
 
This would open up the Pyramids slingshot, but I don't know if that's even feasible on Emperor with a non-philosophical leader.
Maybe in the 2nd city if that's in woodlands too: worker --> pyramids, chop, chop, chop? So Mining/BW, the religion/priesthoodthingy, masonry? Will not our economy suffer too much:confused: There will be no room for pottery for ages.:eek:

It'll be touch'n'go at emporer, but maybe worth trying? I wouldn't know, I'm just a lowlevel noobie who needs her daily dose of wonders. :drool:

Edit: I think that without stone I wouldn't try it, after all, if we have to pick wonders, the Great Library is worth a lot more than the Pyramids.
 
Not at all Carabodes.

If we're going after a Metal Casting slingshot we do indeed need pottery and sooner rather than later.

I'd usually do:

a) Copper near and some cottageable spot available: Mining-> BW-> Wheel-> Pottery-> Myst-> Poly-> Priest
b) Copper near but going for GW: Mining -> BW -> Masonry -> Wheel -> Myst -> Poly -> Priest -> Pottery (whilst building the Oracle)
 
Not at all Carabodes.

If we're going after a Metal Casting slingshot we do indeed need pottery and sooner rather than later.

I'd usually do:

a) Copper near and some cottageable spot available: Mining-> BW-> Wheel-> Pottery-> Myst-> Poly-> Priest
b) Copper near but going for GW: Mining -> BW -> Masonry -> Wheel -> Myst -> Poly -> Priest -> Pottery (whilst building the Oracle)

And we can skip the Wheel, it's one of Gilga's starting techs!
:drool: wonders! :drool:
Oracle, Pyramids, Great Library :woohoo:
(while we're at it, why not the Wall? :D - yeah, I know I'm a bordercase :lol:, I even have conversations with my workers! :bounce: )
 
warrior - move 1NW
settler - build where currently situated

research - mining/bronze working
build - warrior/worker

then start chopping:goodjob:
 
Absolutely, it'll be kind of a waste not to do so. And maybe go for MC, ... and you can start pumping out those Vultures really early.

This would open up the Pyramids slingshot, but I don't know if that's even feasible on Emperor with a non-philosophical leader.

Well, Metal Casting might be a little late to use the vultures in "full effect" and I definately don't see any stone nearby but all I know is that certain investigation of this starting location requires a movement of the settler to the tile to the SW. Whether or not we want to perform that function depends entirely on "our savior", but Bhruic be told (and starting locations be told), is an investigation of those tiles worthwhile? Well maybe so. And then, as Gilgamesh, what value do we place on a three hammer tile, or a floodplains, or a ...

Vulturewise (i.e. hammerwise) I'd suspect 1W is the prefered start, unless more food is found to the SE. Oh, the cost of investigation, in case a turn was lost... ... ... ...or in case more food was found... ... ...(haven't looked at a spoiler or nuthing [needs to be said in this thread]) Good luck, Sis. In all your decisions...
 
I'm for settle in place, REX and go for a calendar slingshot from the Oracle - guess that means I'm going Fishing, Mysticism, Sailing, Priesthood, Writing, Mathematics and ignoring Mining/BW. I'm only doing that because of the three dyes in the BFC. I'll want the GW so I don't get barbed to death, which is my usual fate when gong for resources rather than my usual metal/slavery start.
 
Scarredroman, the new start has no dye in the BFC. The new start position is on page 4 of the thread.
 
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