[Idea] Realistic City Siege

No, it greatly reduces the possible weak points for attacks. If rams can only attack at your gate, then there are fewer to deal with at the same time and you can predict the attacks better.

Rams would only attack your gates, because that's the only place not made of stone. But never mind.

Arakhor I think you may have hit on the difference between a ditch and a moat. It is not the water as there were plenty of dry moats around but the draw bridge.

We already have a line of buildings for towers. I always assumed that in the presence of walls these were additions to the walls hot separate buildings.

I am suggesting that the wall line be replaced with "walls without gates" and "walls with gates". This is not a big change. It just means that there are a few new wall types added at the tech that gives hinges to replace the older wall types. We could re-use the Pulley tech if necessary.

The discussion on moats suggests that ditches should upgrade to moat. Unless you want multiple layers of ditches in which case I would suggest inner and outer ditches with the inner one upgrading to moat.

All of these things should reduce trade imo.

Ditch -> Moat sounds like a clear upgrade path, I agree.

Arakhor said:

Ditch -> Moat sounds like a clear upgrade path, I agree.

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Yeah but we already had topics on this ...

Hydromancerx said:

@Faustmouse

Here are some more ...

City Dry Moat
Button/Icon: ?
Req Tech: Siege Warfare
Req Buildings: High Walls
Req Resources: -
Req City Size: 6
Cost: 120
Req Power: No
Obsolete Tech: Rifling
Replaced By: -

• -1
• +2
• Exerts Zone of Control over all Adjacent Tiles
• +10% Defense

---

Castle Dry Moat
Button/Icon: ?
Req Tech: Engineering
Req Buildings: Castle OR Star Fort
Req Resources: -
Req City Size: 6
Cost: 130
Req Power: No
Obsolete Tech: Artillery
Replaced By: -

• -1
• +2
• Exerts Zone of Control over all Adjacent Tiles
• +10% Defense

---

City Water Moat
Button/Icon: ?
Req Tech: Canal Systems
Req Buildings: Aqueduct AND High Walls
Req Resources: -
Req City Size: 6
Cost: 120
Req Power: No
Obsolete Tech: Rifling
Replaced By: -

• -1
• +2
• Exerts Zone of Control over all Adjacent Tiles
• +10% Defense

---

Castle Water Moat
Button/Icon: ?
Req Tech: Engineering
Req Buildings: Aqueduct AND (Castle OR Star Fort)
Req Resources: -
Req City Size: 6
Cost: 130
Req Power: No
Obsolete Tech: Artillery
Replaced By: -

• -1
• +2
• Exerts Zone of Control over all Adjacent Tiles
• +10% Defense

---

City Spiked Moat
Button/Icon: ?
Req Tech: Siege Warfare
Req Buildings: High Walls
Req Resources: Wood OR Prime Timber OR Bamboo
Req City Size: 6
Cost: 120
Req Power: No
Obsolete Tech: Rifling
Replaced By: -

• -1
• +2
• Exerts Zone of Control over all Adjacent Tiles
• +10% Defense

---

Castle Spiked Moat
Button/Icon: ?
Req Tech: Engineering
Req Buildings: Castle OR Star Fort
Req Resources: Wood OR Prime Timber OR Bamboo
Req City Size: 6
Cost: 130
Req Power: No
Obsolete Tech: Artillery
Replaced By: -

• -1
• +2
• Exerts Zone of Control over all Adjacent Tiles
• +10% Defense

---

Please put all 9 of these in my Tower Mod. Also you will want to chnage the stats for the existing Moat. I am thinking it should become the Castle Water Moat since that's what its icon looks most like.

Thanks!

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and ...

Hydromancerx said:

@Faustmouse

Ok I have an idea. I will just hve us combine each set of 3 into one. Please do them like this ...

City Moat
Button/Icon: ?
Req Tech: Siege Warfare
Req Buildings: Irrigation Canals AND High Walls
Req Resources: Wood OR Prime Timber OR Bamboo
Req City Size: 6
Cost: 120
Req Power: No
Obsolete Tech: Rifling
Replaced By: -

• -1
• +2
• +30% Defense

---

Castle Moat
Button/Icon: ?
Req Tech: Engineering
Req Buildings: Aqueduct AND (Castle OR Star Fort)
Req Resources: Wood OR Prime Timber OR Bamboo
Req City Size: 6
Cost: 130
Req Power: No
Obsolete Tech: Artillery
Replaced By: -

• -1
• +2
• +30% Defense

Notes: Use Old Moat Tag.

---

Click to expand...

And we had these that were never made.

Hydromancerx said:

@Faustmouse

These are to be added AFTER the release.

Murder Holes
Button/Icon: ?
Req Tech: Siege Warfare
Req Buildings: City Gatehouse OR Castle Gatehouse
Req Resources: Oil OR Tar OR Olive Oil OR Ghee Oil OR Fish Oil OR Whale Oil
Req City Size: 6
Cost: 120
Req Power: No
Obsolete Tech: Artillery
Replaced By: -

• -1
• Repels Attacker (like Bee Bombs)
• Adjacent Enemy Units will Receive 10% Damage Per Turn
• +20% Defense
• +10 Flammability
• +10 Air Pollution

---

Pitch Ditch
Button/Icon: Here
Req Tech: Ancient Ballistics
Req Buildings: -
Req Resources: Tar
Req City Size: -
Cost: 110
Req Power: No
Obsolete Tech: Mine Warfare
Replaced By: -

• -1
• +2
• Adjacent Enemy Units will Receive 10% Damage Per Turn
• +20% Defense
• +10 Flammability
• +10 Air Pollution

---

Rolling Logs
Button/Icon: Here
Req Tech: Masonry
Req Buildings: Walls OR High Walls
Req Resources: Prime Timber
Req City Size: -
Cost: 30
Req Power: No
Obsolete Tech: Rifling
Replaced By: -

• -1
• +2
• Adjacent Enemy Units will Receive 5% Damage Per Turn
• +10% Defense

---

Also if you (or anyone else) have better stats for these be my guess to suggest them.

Click to expand...

If someone could make the last 3 that would be great.

The point I was making that Moat is both wet and dry it is a ditch with some sort of removable bridge, drawbridge. Whereas a ditch is also wet or dry but has a permanent crossing of some sort.

I agree. I can't imagine that anyone would go to the effort of building a moat or other permanent defensive emplacement and then deliberately neutralizing it, whether it be by providing a permanent crossing or simply leaving the keys in your solid oak front door.

Then again, you can have a drawbridge without a moat.

Well, you could, I suppose, but people don't tend to build unnecessary defensive structures.

Actually what I would like to see when it comes to realistic siege is the ability to actually besiege a city, just as pirate ships can do, but on land. A great deal of sieges historically were accomplished by starving out the citizens until they surrendered. And the reason for this was to capture the city and it's defensive structures intact, or because capturing the city wasn't actually the objective of the siege. And ofcourse that fewer of your own soldiers die if you can wait out the enemy instead of storming the walls. The germans sieged Paris for months as late as 1870 preferring to use their artillery more as a way to break down the inhabitants moral than breaking through the then still standing city walls, which artillery of that time easily could have done in a matter of hours. They didn't want to take Paris, they wanted France to bring it's army to fight them. And the french army did finally come to meet them in battle, lost and had to accept a humiliating peace treaty.

And this is what I'd like to see in civ aswell. An ability to, if you have no rush, to siege a city. Say it takes 5-25 turns to do it depending on how much unhealth, unhappiness and starvation it gets from cutting all it's traderoutes. And if your enemy has an army left it will probably come and fight you. That way we get some more field action aswell, and it gets more important to actively fight invaders instead of letting them suicide against a well fortified city.

stoferb said:

Actually what I would like to see when it comes to realistic siege is the ability to actually besiege a city, just as pirate ships can do, but on land. A great deal of sieges historically were accomplished by starving out the citizens until they surrendered.

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This + Realism Invictus military support system could be awesome

Sparth said:

This + Realism Invictus military support system could be awesome

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Yes, I miss the stack aid system of RI.

It's been called for a LOT here (I've never played it myself) and it's been a very high priority project. However, I'm still struggling to conceive of how it would be able to be done in such a manner as to not cause HUGE memory and slowdown problems. In RI they can probably get away with it a little easier than we can here. That said, it's still under consideration... among further concepts to go along with it.

In Pie's Ancient Europe huge stacks of units can revolt and turn to barbarians. More units = more chance to rebel.

Sparth said:

In Pie's Ancient Europe huge stacks of units can revolt and turn to barbarians. More units = more chance to rebel.

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and it is all done in python