C2C - Wonder Civs

Hydromancerx said:

I also still have my gears turning on what to do with the "City State" idea for Civ4. I would use a similar combo resource method where if you have 2 of the right resources in your city vicinity then you can research a wonder to build an embassy with a "City State" civilization. In doing so you gain access to their special buildings, units and promotions.

Tech Level
Ancient = Obsidian
Classical = Copper
Medieval = Iron
Renaissance = Sulphur
Industrial = Coal
Modern = Oil
Trans-Human = Uranium

Here is an idea example on how it could work ...

Apache Embassy
Req Resources: Sulphur AND Horses
Req Terrain: Desert

Special Units
- Apache Cavalry (Replaces Calvary)

Building
- Apache Cactus (+1 Food from Desert tiles)

Promotions
- Apache Raiders (200% More Gold from Pillaging)
- Apache Endurance (Cavalry get +1 Movement)

Obviously this kind of stuff should be adjusted but it would give a new level of game play if you could pick up new cultures into yours.

Click to expand...

Hydromancerx said:

City States

Anywho I had another idea. I always loved the Assimilation feature in Civ4 AND where you get the special buildings and units that the city you took over had. However now we have the whole city state thing. Back when I was modding for Civ4 AND I was trying to implement a system where if you made a wonder you would get a naive tribe. Much like the Native Embassy system set up in "Age of Empire 3". However this city state system is even better!! If you take over a city state then depending upon what city state it is you can produce special units, buildings and maybe even gain access to hidden techs!

Here are some examples from "Age of Empire 3". Note that icons would be already created from these and possibly even stats! I also tried to get it as close to the original game as possible but some bonuses had to be changed for Civ. Feel free to change them or think of new ones.

City States as Native Tribes

Spoiler :

Apache
Special Unit: Apache Cavalry (Replaces Calvary)
Techs:
- Apache Cactus (+1 Food from Desert tiles)
- Apache Raiders (200% More Gold from Pillaging)
- Apache Endurance (Apache Cavalry get +1 Movement)


Carib
Special Unit: Carib Blowgunner (Replaces Archer)
Techs:
- Carib Kasiri Beer (+10% gold from Brewery)
- Carib Garifuna Drums (Archers do 100% more damage vs workers)
- Carib Ambush Party (Explorers gain +50% attack)


Cherokee
Special Unit: Cherokee Rifleman (Replaces Rifleman)
Techs:
- Cherokee War Dance (20% easier to gain relations with city states)
- Cherokee Basket Weaving (-50% cost of Markets)
- Sequoyah's Cherokee Syllabary (Get a free Settler)


Cheyenne
Special Unit: Cheyenne Rider (Replaces Horseman)
Techs:
- Cheyenne Hunting Grounds (+10% more Food from Deer Resource)
- Cheyenne Horse Trading (Calvary build 40% faster)
- Cheyenne Fury (Cheyenne Rider do +100% more damage vs Calvary)


Comanche
Special Unit: Comanche Horse Archer (Replaces Horse Archer)
Techs:
- Comanche Horse Breeding (Calvary +10% HP)
- Comanche Trade Language (+10% more foreign trade)
- Comanche Mustangs (Comanche Horse Archer get +1 Movement)


Cree
Special Units: Cree Tracker (Replaces Scout), Cree Coureur des Bois (Replaces Settler)
Techs:
- Cree Textile Craftsmanship (10% more Gold from Sheep Resource)
- Cree Kinship (Cree Tracker cost 50% less to build)
- Cree Tanning (Infantry and Calvary get +5% more HP)


Huron
Special Units: Huron Mantlet (Replaces Warrior)
Techs:
- Huron Fish Wedding (10% more Food from Fish Resource)
- Huron Sun Ceremony (Huron Mantlet build 50% faster)
- Huron Trade Dominance (Produces a free Huron Mantlet every 10 turns up to 300 turns)


Incas
Special Units: Incan Bolas Warrior (Replaces Archer), Incan Huaminca (replaces Spearman)
Techs:
- Incan Road Building (Roads cost 50% less to build)
- Incan Metalworking (10% more Gold from Gold and Silver Resources)
- Incan Chasquis Messengers (Scouts get +1 Movement)


Klamath
Special Units: Klamath Rifleman (Replaces Rifleman)
Techs:
- Klamath Strategy (Klamath Rifleman do 25% more damage)
- Klamath Huckleberry Feast (+1 Food to all cities)
- Klamath Work Ethos (Workers work 5% faster)


Mapuche
Special Units: Mapuche Ironwood Clubman (Replaces Warrior)
Techs:
- Mapuche Ad-mapu (All Units cost are 20% cheaper to produce)
- Mapuche Tactics (Melee have +50% vs Siege Weapons)
- Mapuche Treaty of Quillin (+100 gold every 20 turns up to 300 turns)


Maya
Special Units: Maya Holcan Spearman (Replaces Spearman), Plumed Archer (Replaces Archer)
Techs:
- Mayan Cotton Armor (+20% HP for Melee)
- Mayan Calendar (+50% Food from Farms)
- Mayan Astronomy (Astronomy tech research cost 50% less)


Navajo
Special Units: Navajo Rifleman (Replaces Rifleman)
Techs:
- Navajo Weaving (+10% more Gold from Cotton Resource)
- Navajo Shepherds (+10% more Gold from Sheep Resource)
- Navajo Craftsmanship (-10% Maintenance)


Nootka
Special Units: Nootka Clubman (Replaces Warrior)
Techs:
- Nootka Bark Clothing (Workers get +50% HP)
- Nootka Potlatch (Nootka Clubman build 50% faster and 10% cheaper)
- Nootka Woodcarving (Fishing Boats cost 50% less to build)


Seminole
Special Units: Seminole Sharktooth Bowman (Replaces Archer)
Techs:
- Seminole Guerrilla Wars (Seminole Sharktooth Bowman +300% vs City Attack)
- Seminole Bowery (Archer attack +35%)
- Swamp People (Seminole Sharktooth Bowman get no movement penalty for Marshes/Bogs)


Tupi
Special Units: Tupi Blackwood Archer (Replaces Archer)
Techs:
- Tupi Poison Arrow Frogs (All archers +10% Damage)
- Tupi Animal Lore (100% vs Animal Units)
- Tupi Forest Burning (Workers clear/chop forest or jungle 50% Faster)


Zapotec
Special Units: Zapotec Lightning Warrior (Replaces Warrior)
Techs:
- Zapotec Food of the Gods (Farms produce 10% more food)
- Zapotec Cult of the Dead (Zapotec Lightning Warrior do 20% more damage)
- Zapotec Cloud People (Hills give +1 Production)

There are more for the minor Asian and European civilizations but I will get to those later.

EDIT: Ok here are the other "tribes".


Bhakti Temple
Special Units: Tiger Claw (Replaces Swordsman)
Techs:
- Yoga (Melee units damage +5% more)
- Reinforced Gauntlets (Tiger Claws get +50% HP)
- Vegetarianism (Farms produce 40% more food)


Jesuit Temple
Special Units: Conquistador (Replaces Knight)
Techs:
- Flying Buttress (City +20% defenses)
- Smokeless Powder (Gunpowder Units have +30% attack)
- Christian School (+15% more research)


Shaolin Temple
Special Units: Rattan Shield (Replaces Swordsman)
Techs:
- Clenched Fists (Archers +25% vs Melee)
- Wood Clearing (Workers clear/chop forest 20% Faster)
- Dim Mark (Rattan Shield have 50% more damage)


Sufi Mosque
Special Units: War Elephant (Replaces War Elephant) [Needs a Better Unit]
Techs:
- Pilgrimage (Mosques cost 50% less to build)
- Fasting (Workers work 10% faster but -40% hit points)
- Sharia (Workers produce 50% faster)


Udasi Temple
Special Units: Chakram (Replaces Swordsman)
Techs:
- Sikh Gurus (Explorers get 50% more hit points and damage)
- Punjabi New Year (+10% more food from Rice Resource)
- Army of the Pure (Chakram can see 20% farther)


Zen Temple
Special Units: Sohei (Replaces Pikeman)
Techs:
- Zen Meditation (Meditation tech research cost 50% less)
- Master Lessons (Melee unit damage +10%)
- Meritocracy (Unit upgrades are 20% cheaper)

*phew* Ok so those were the rest I think.aybe not the best for a city state but perhaps a new type of map feature where diffrent regions can have their own far off temple in the middle or nowhere.

I think the bonuses need a lot of work but this gives something for us to work on and improve. I could totally see this done for other minor civilizations around the world.

Click to expand...

Hydromancerx said:

City States

Spoiler :

- Apache Embassy [Wonder]
- Carib Embassy [Wonder]
- Cherokee Embassy [Wonder]
- Cheyenne Embassy [Wonder]
- Comanche Embassy [Wonder]
- Cree Embassy [Wonder]
- Dakota Embassy [Wonder]
- Hopi Embassy [Wonder]
- Huron Embassy [Wonder]
- Inuit Embassy [Wonder]
- Lakota Embassy [Wonder]
- Mapuche Embassy [Wonder]
- Navajo Embassy [Wonder]
- Nootka Embassy [Wonder]
- Tupi Embassy [Wonder]
- Zapotec Embassy [Wonder]
- Manchurian Embassy [Wonder]
- Ainu Embassy [Wonder]
- Tibetan Embassy [Wonder]
- Finnish Embassy [Wonder]
- Scottish Embassy [Wonder]
- Swedish Embassy [Wonder]
- Swiss Embassy [Wonder]
- Polynesian Embassy [Wonder]
- Rapa Nui Embassy [Wonder]
- Maori Embassy [Wonder]
- Hawaiian Embassy [Wonder]
- Aborigine Embassy [Wonder]
- Nubian Embassy [Wonder]
- Tuareg Embassy [Wonder]
- Berber Embassy [Wonder]
- Masai Embassy [Wonder]
- Congolese Embassy [Wonder]
- Kanem-Bornu Embassy [Wonder]
- Benin Embassy [Wonder]
- Fulani Embassy [Wonder]
- Somali Embassy [Wonder]
- Aka Embassy [Wonder]
- Luba Embassy [Wonder]
- Mutapa Embassy [Wonder]
- Swazi Embassy [Wonder]
- Hererto Embassy [Wonder]
- Merina Embassy [Wonder]

Plus a ton more to add to this sicne there are tons of minor cultures to do.

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Hydromancerx said:

If we are going to try an embassy system with the main civs we will need to know what we currently have for the Unique Units and Unique Buildings. I think thy should be updated anyways so its good we are going over them ...

Spoiler :

American Empire
Unit: Navy SEAL (Marine)
Buildings: Mall (Grocer), Victory Garden (Community Garden) [The mall seems lame since there can be malls in other places. This should probbly be made a building for any civ.]

Arabian Empire
Unit: Mamaluke (Knight)
Building: Madrassa (Library)

Assyrian Empire
Unit: Battering Ram (Catapult) [We already have rams, they need a new unit]
Building: Ekal Masharti (Barracks)

Aztec Empire
Unit: Jaguar (Light Swordsman)
Building: Sacrificial Alter (Courthouse) [Don't we already have this? They need a better building.]

Babylonian Empire
Unit: Bowman (Archer) [This is a lame named unit. Something should be redone.]
Building: Garden (Coliseum) [A garden, really? This seems like it should be better.]

Byzantine Empire
Unit: Cataphract (Knight)
Building: Hippodome (Theater) [This seems like other empires should have a Hippodrome like the Romans or Greeks]

Celtic Empire
Unit: Gaelic Warrior (Light Swordsman)
Building: Dun (Walls)

Chinese Empire
Unit: Chukonu (Crossbow)
Building: Pavilion (Theater)

Dutch Empire
Unit: East Indiaman (Galleon)
Building: Dike (Levee)

Egyptian Empire
Unit: War Chariot (Chariot)
Building: Obelisk (Monument)

English Empire
Unit: Redcoat (Rifleman)
Buildings: Stock Exchange (Bank), Victory Garden (Community Garden) [The stock exchange seems like it should be a building for every empire.]

Ethiopian Empire
Unit: Oromo Warrior (Musketman)
Building: Stele (Monument)

French Empire
Unit: Musketeer (Musketman)
Building: Salon (Observatory) [Why is this replacing the observatory?]

German Empire
Unit: Panzer (Tank)
Building: Assembly Plant (Factory)[This should be avilable to all empires.]

Greek Empire
Unit: Phalanx (Axeman)
Building: Odeon (Coliseum)

Hittite Empire
Unit: Hittite Chariot (Chariot)
Building: Iron Forge (Forge) [This should be something else.]

Holy Roman Empire
Unit: Landshnecht (Pikeman)
Building: Ratheus (Courthouse)

Incan Empire
Unit: Quechua (Clubman)
Building: Terrace (Granary) [This should be allow for all empires.]

Indian Empire
Unit: Fast Worker (Worker)
Building: Mausoleum (Jail) [Why is this replacing the jail?]

Iroquois Empire
Unit: Mohawk Archer (Lonbowman)
Building: Longhouse (Courthouse)

Japanese Empire
Unit: Samurai (Maceman)
Building: Shale Plant (Coal Plant) [This should be allow for all empires.]

Khmer Empire
Unit: Batista Elephant (War Elephant) [This should require "Ancient Ballistics" and be its own unit.]
Building: Baray (Aqueduct)

Korean Empire
Unit: Hwacha (Catapult)
Building: Sewon (University)

Malinese Empire
Unit: Skirmisher (Archer) [This should be for all empires.]
Building: Mint (Forge) [This should be for all empires.]

Mayan Empire
Unit: Holkan (Spearman)
Building: Ball Court (Coliseum) [This should be available for the Aztecs and other Mezo-American empires]

Mongolian Empire
Unit: Keshik (Horse Archer)
Building: Ger (Stables)

Native American Empire [This empire should probably be taken out and replaced by individual tribes.]
Unit: Dog Soldier (Axeman)
Building: Totem Pole (Monument)

Ottoman Empire
Unit: Janissary (Musketman)
Building: Hammam (Aqueduct) [Why is the replacing the aqueduct?]

Persian Empire
Unit: Immortal (Chariot) [Why is the replacing the chariot?]
Building: Apothecary (Grocer) [We already have a building like this.]

Portuguese Empire
Unit: Carrak (Caravel)
Building: Fetoria (Customs Office)

Roman Empire
Unit: Praetorian (Light Swordsman)
Building: Forum (Market) [Why is this replacing the market? This should be linked to a civic or something.]

Russian Empire
Unit: Corssack (Calvary)
Building: Research Institute (Laboratory) [This should be available for all empires.]

Siamese Empire
Unit: Battle Elephant (War Elephant)
Building: Ho Trai (Library)

Spanish Empire
Unit: Conquistador (Cuirassier)
Building: Citadel (Castle)

Sumerian Empire
Unit: Vulture (Axeman)
Building: Ziggurat (Courthouse)

Viking Empire
Unit: Berserker (Maceman)
Building: Trading Post [This should be available for all empires. Maybe replace this with a "Funeral Pyre" unique building.]

Zulu Empire
Unit: Impi (Spearman)
Building: Ikhanda (Barracks)

Overall I think we should have some overall of units especially if its regional. For instance Asian empires using similar units native to Asia or the same kind of boats that are non-European.

I also think under the new system all unique units and buildings should either be either stand alone (not replacing buildings) or if they do replace something it should make sense why.

Making such as system should hopefully allow for more customability to make your empire unique and different from any of the current standard empires.

Click to expand...

Praetyre said:

Ah, that makes more sense. Thanks for clarifying.

Pretty good stuff, only thing I'd add is some of the new civs from the Custom Civs pack:

Americas
Apache
Arawak
Cherokee
Chinook
Dinnehih
Olmec

Australia & Oceania
Aborigines
Polynesians (on that note, as a New Zealander, I'd love to see a Pa UB replacing the castle that gave an extra boost to hill defense, not to mention some variety of Maori warrior unit)

Middle East
Israel

Click to expand...

Dancing Hoskuld said:

The only problem with this is that there is evidence of trade between Africa, Europe and the Middle East in the Stone Age long before any of the civs mentioned were even thought of. Trade between the Middle East, Africa and India happens early in the Ancient Era, glass being one of the goods traded. The trade route that would become "The Silk Road" also existed, easily demonstrated by the early bronze European Celts found in what would become China. In the last case the deserts were smaller and populated east of the much larger Caspian Sea.

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strategyonly said:

Put each Homeland as an added tech in each Era, and maybe a secondary one (less important) where you have it. Cause by then you will have more cities and can place the extra wonder in one of your less better cities.

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strategyonly said:

btw, i am making a better btn for each, i hope you dont mind

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Dancing Hoskuld said:

The only problem with this is that there is evidence of trade between Africa, Europe and the Middle East in the Stone Age long before any of the civs mentioned were even thought of. Trade between the Middle East, Africa and India happens early in the Ancient Era, glass being one of the goods traded. The trade route that would become "The Silk Road" also existed, easily demonstrated by the early bronze European Celts found in what would become China. In the last case the deserts were smaller and populated east of the much larger Caspian Sea.

Click to expand...

Hydromancerx said:

Please make sure it called "Discovered" and not "Homeland" since once tou start getting the rest of the techs having more than one homeland doesn't make sense.



Aw. I like those old timey maps. What did you have in mind.

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strategyonly said:

More like these where you can actually see what they are.

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strategyonly said:

More like these where you can actually see what they are.

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Dancing Hoskuld said:

The civ "The Temple Builders of Malta" is so old we don't know its name. It was a trading nation that had trade routes to Africa and Europe as well as the Middle East. As can be seen by the stuff they left behind.

Click to expand...

• Enables "Neanderthal" Unit
• Enables "Neanderthal Caves" Building

• +1 with Cave Painting
• +50% Defense (Except vs Units with High Explosives)
• -20% Damage to Defense from Bombardment (Except vs Units with High Explosives)
• Double Production for Protective Leaders

• ?

Hydromancerx said:

Looks like we will have to take this at a civ by civ basis. The first civ I want to do is the "Neanderthals". They are not really a civ but another species. But for this game we can count them as a civ. Here is my idea ...

Neanderthal Embassy [Wonder]
Cost: 50
Req Resource in Vicinity: Stone
Req Tech: Cave Dwelling AND (Discovered Europe OR Discovered Middle East)
Obsolete Tech: Sedentary Lifestyle
Gold: +1
Science: +1
Culture: +1
Espionage:+1

Special Abilities

• Enables "Neanderthal" Unit
• Enables "Neanderthal Caves" Building

Neanderthal Caves [Building]
Cost: 25
Req Building: Neanderthal Embassy
Req Tech: Cave Dwelling
Obsolete Tech: Ritualism
Culture: +1
Health: +1

Special Abilities

• +1 with Cave Painting
• +50% Defense (Except vs Units with High Explosives)
• -20% Damage to Defense from Bombardment (Except vs Units with High Explosives)
• Double Production for Protective Leaders

Neanderthal [Unit]
Cost: ?
Image: Pic1 Pic2
Unit Type: Melee
Req Building: Neanderthal Embassy
Req Tech: Tool Making
Strength: 3
Speed; 1

Special Abilities

• ?

I don't recall what the Cost or Special Abilities of the Neanderthal was before so I am guessing the same.

So what do you think? A good prehistoric wonder civ?

Click to expand...

strategyonly said:

Yes, infact, DH is working on making the Neanderthal unit work, but RL sometimes gets the better deal, which i know everyone understands. And since i dont have a RL, i use this mod as my LIFE.

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Hydromancerx said:

What was wrong with the unit? What features did it have that messed it up?

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Hydromancerx said:

What was wrong with the unit? What features did it have that messed it up?

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strategyonly said:

Nothing wrong with the unit, it just doesn't work for some reason as a -1 cost, which is Barbarian only.

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