ParkCungHee
Deity
- Joined
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- 12,921
Why do you single out the New World and Oceania?
Don't you think the Nations of Europe were founded by Immigrants? Of Africa and Asia?
US Gov't Sues Arizona Over Immigration Law
- Thread starter Tani Coyote
- Start date
Don't you think the Nations of Europe were founded by Immigrants? Of Africa and Asia?
Formaldehyde
Both Fair And Balanced
Indeed. Rampant nativism and bigotry has always been an inherent part of American life. What would be unusual is if it suddenly disappeared.
I think Latinos are finally catching on that the Republican Party may be more conservative which many of them prefer, but it is also primarily responsible for absurdities such as the current situation in Arizona. The Republicans are literally cutting their own throats by being so unreasonable towards immigration.
I'm sorry, but aren't both parties obviously absurd when it comes to immigration reform?
Formaldehyde
Both Fair And Balanced
It certainly sounds a lot better than the Republican "plan" of basically doing nothing, as usual:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/29/AR2010042904512.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/29/AR2010042904512.html
Spoiler :
JerichoHill
Bedrock of Knowledge
I would have thought those among the least lost. Food still has to be harvested after all.
Banking, auto industry, and other retail/factory/low level corporate jobs would have been first during a recession like this. But not farming. If anything, during such periods, people buy more produce and eat at home as opposed to going out to eat simply in order to save money.
But hey, I am just a middle class consumer. What do I know.
Manual Labor jobs suffered heavy losses, especially those which employed mainly young men.
You can always factcheck by looking at the BLS website.
MobBoss
Off-Topic Overlord
My comments were specific to the farming industy....not the entire sector of manual labor jobs.
Since we overgrow, cutting back on labor during hards times is something within your claimed realm of prophecy.
Merkinball
Deity
Almost all laws are fashioned under the same premise as this one. I can call and say my neighbor is drunk and beating his ole lady, if that's not the case, I have no right to sue him for it. Same goes with your ridiculous situation. If your maid is legal, you're gonna be the one getting sued.
I doubt it, as there is a statute in the law that allows cops to not investigate immigration status if it impedes the investigation of another crime. In this case, the more pressing issue is the domestic violence that must be investigated before any allegations of illegal immigration are looked in to. At any rate, her immigration status will come through in the investigation. So yeah, not impressed.
You're right. We are pretty much all decendents of immigrants. But not illegal ones. You see, back in the day the immigration process was actually respected. Immigrants came through specific ports of entry like Ellis Island. They throw their belongings over their shoulder and run, jump, or swim.
For them? Or for America? For them you're clearly correct. For America you're clearly wrong. America would come out on top if they went back to Mexico and some of the 9.5% unemployed, or the 17% unemployed/discouraged workers/underemployed took those jobs and we stopped subsidizing their welfare/unemployment benefits.
Have fun paying for your defense lawyer...
Ajidica
High Quality Person
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2006
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Are Republicans capable of doing anything constructive? Never mind that only one republican has been negotiating the issue. She said this:
Yet she ignores this:Article Formaldehyde posted said:
They incorporate some of your platform points into the bill and you dismiss it for not doing what it explicitly says it will do?Article said:
Hate to say it, but you slept through your American History class on this day. Immegrants were not liked for the most part during the Gilded Age. Why do you think the Ethnic Ghettos were formed? Ever read the Upton Sinclair book 'The Jungle'? Those immegrants were definitly not respected. Move a bit later and look at the Sacco and Vanzetti case in the 20's. Both were Italian immegrants who were convicted under unfair trials.Merkinball said:
Not quite. Both parties are unwilling to actually do the work and take the heat for any reform bill. Ant reform bill, no matter what the contents. But the Republicans are the ones that are demonizing immigrants, alluding to racism to inflame issues voters, and demanding policies that harm hispanics for no practical reason.
Merkinball
Deity
I wasn't talking about people who were already here. I'm talking about the government, and the people who flooded this country. The government understood and respected the necessity of a legal process to document who was coming here and protect the citizenry from the sick and the criminal. They also weren't out shilling for votes so that 10 million people who couldn't currently vote, would vote for them. And the people who came similarly respected the values instilled in the constitution of the nation they were immigrating to. The were willfully looking to go through the legal process to become an American citizen. They weren't out illegally crossing the border and hoping a politician would just give it to them because they were here before a certain grandfathering date.
And yeah, I read the Jungle. It's political fiction, so I could care less about the immigrants in it...
Formaldehyde
Both Fair And Balanced
Millions of people literally walked across the border from Canada and nobody said a word. The same holds true with Mexico. The only immigrants who came through Ellis Island arrived by boat from Europe, and many were denied entry because they became sick on the voyage. Others were also denied entry for various and sundry reasons, including merely being unskilled or having an occupation which the authorities didn't think would pay the bills.
In fact, after the Immigration Act of 1924, the only immigrants who were allowed entry through Ellis Islan were displaced persons or war refugees. After that point, it was primarily used as a detention and deportation faclilty to get rid of all the undesirables, such as "radicals".
Ellis Island isn't exactly a crowning achievement of immigration history, much like the country it represents. Most of it is largely myth.
In fact, after the Immigration Act of 1924, the only immigrants who were allowed entry through Ellis Islan were displaced persons or war refugees. After that point, it was primarily used as a detention and deportation faclilty to get rid of all the undesirables, such as "radicals".
Ellis Island isn't exactly a crowning achievement of immigration history, much like the country it represents. Most of it is largely myth.
Merkinball
Deity
I did search on google entitled, "millions of illegal immigrants from Canada" and it turned up nothing, so yeah, have it with the linking... Please show me a shred of evidence that illegal immigration over a 20 year period was as prolific from Canada as it has been from Mexico.
Oh, you mean the reasons that EVERY country has an immigration system?
It wasn't needed as much at that point in history. And was closed 20 years after that...
Oh, you mean the reasons that EVERY country has an immigration system?
It wasn't needed as much at that point in history. And was closed 20 years after that...
Formaldehyde
Both Fair And Balanced
Gee, that must mean it never happened. That everybody respected an imaginary border that was hardly ever patrolled for smuggling, much less to turn back anybody who wanted to simply move from one country to the other.
You mean nativism and bigotry got to the point where the law was changed to essentially prohibit any more immigration from Europe via ship?
Border patrol is so lax up there that not even Google saw them coming in.
Skwink
FRIIIIIIIIIITZ
- Joined
- May 14, 2010
- Messages
- 5,683
Well it appears to me Republicans passed a immigration law in Arizona....
To Form- I know man! Over where I live we are having TONS of illegal Canadians coming in! [/sarcasm]
"The illegal immigrant population of the United States in 2008 was estimated by the Center for Immigration Studies to be about 11 million people, down from 12.5 million people in 2007.[2] According to a Pew Hispanic Center report, in 2005, 57% of illegal immigrants were from Mexico; 24% were from other Latin American countries, primarily from Central America;[3] 9% were from Asia; 6% were from Europe; and 4% were from the rest of the world."
Ajidica
High Quality Person
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Skwink: It also appears said law is bigoted and easy to abuse and is resulting in the Federal Government suing the state. The government tries to fix the issue by including some of their party planks and what do they do? They say the bill doesn't seek to decrease illegal imegration, yet the bill says it will seek to decrease the rate of illegal immegration. Idiots.
It also does nothing to address the illegals already living here. In all seriousness, who else would clean our toilets for minumum wage? I'm willing to bet most people on this forum would consider a night job cleaning toilets beneath them.
As for the security of the Canadian border, I technicaly have violated international law by illegaly entering Canada for ~30 minutes while I was in the Minnesota Boundary Waters and stepped foot on Canadian soil. Clearly a very secure border where no-one could possibly consider violating it when there is next to no security up there.
It also does nothing to address the illegals already living here. In all seriousness, who else would clean our toilets for minumum wage? I'm willing to bet most people on this forum would consider a night job cleaning toilets beneath them.
As for the security of the Canadian border, I technicaly have violated international law by illegaly entering Canada for ~30 minutes while I was in the Minnesota Boundary Waters and stepped foot on Canadian soil. Clearly a very secure border where no-one could possibly consider violating it when there is next to no security up there.
This seems like it's just because you did not realize how Google works - no search engine anyone knows of finds matches for such long phrases effectively. That doesn't mean it's not a valid point, it's just a misunderstanding of search engines.
Also, I note you did not seem to understand previous posters presenting part of their arguments in referring to all Americans effectively being immigrants who came to lands already inhabited by Native Americans - way before Ellis Island the US government effectively doing anything plenty of this "immigration" was already going on. This sentiment sums up the idea of a "nation of immigrants" as it applies politically, and certainly one cannot ignore history and pretend all previous "immigration" was tidy and "legal."
Merkinball
Deity
I could say a whole bunch of crap, never verify it, and then insist that even though there's no evidence of it that it still happened or was true. But that wouldn't help me win the debate, and I'd look pretty silly in the process trying to defend myself.
To a extent yet. I don't see what that matters though. That's the purpose of having a nation. That's the purpose of having borders. That's the purpose of having immigration regulations that are set by the citizens of that nation. If the citizens of a certain place don't want outsiders within their borders, then that is their prerogative...
Yes they do.
Then you or Forma validate the point. You won't validate the point because asinine hyperbole from the outset. Millions of Canadians have never invaded our nation in a two decade time span.
Immigration WAS tidy and legal from the start of the nation. And before the existence of the nation there was nothing to be illegal about since there was no nation or legal statutes against people moving onto the new continent.
Bugfatty300
Buddha Squirrel
Well Spain, through the Treaty of Tordesillas, did have rights to the entire continent. It was indeed illegal for the English, Dutch, French, etc to settle it. In fact Spain had a "border patrol" that searched up and down the North American coastlines looking for illegal immigrants. One of those patrols may have come across a band of illegals squatting at a place called Roanoke. Fortunately though one group of illegals did evade the border patrol and established Jamestown, the ancestors of which eventually created the United States. So in a way the nation does have origins in illegal immigration.
