CFC TG1: Calling All Settler, Chieftain, and Warlord Players

Well, I know we want to take out Berlin, so that is the main priority. I think it is appropriate to discuss life beyond Berlin. What techs are we going for? What expansion instincts do we meet? How do we get off this continent and kill other people? When and if we annex our puppets. I will admit to being very clueless here.

I would propose a general strategy of expanding into juicy parts of this continent with Settlers, developing infrastructure and working towards Astronomy to get off this island paradise. What we do now to start enabling that later, I don't know.

By the way, I don't think Germany has a third city. I saw a Warrior and a Spearman come out of the Western Fog, but after taking Hamburg, I don't see any signs of city borders. It would still be a good idea to go look to make sure.
 
whoa Seems like I missed a 2 turn sets. Great job on the first wave against Germany.;)

I agree with Eris, about now is where I just get lost and stop thinking about the future game plan. Interested to see where we are heading with the techs and future development of this continent.
 
I haven't looked at the save yet and can't until this afternoon.

Personally, I only annex if a city is something that is worth controlling and even then, I'm hesitant. You can't buy courthouses, so unless the city has really good production, its going to take way too long to bother with. If its in a really good spot and the city isn't too developed, I've found its best to raze the city and then settle the spot with my own settler. Yes, you lose the cultural boundaries, but again, its another option.

If Berlin is the last German city and there's no one else on our continent, I'd probably first see about expanding into all the good spots first. That doesn't mean I'd ignore off-continent expansion. We still want to prepare for explore the seas and locating the other AIs. Depending on what else we find on our continent, we can either push towards Astronomy or go for the tech that allows us to embark and send out some embarked scouts to explore.

Again, I'd rather look at the save before strongly suggesting anything. The above is just from memory, but I've played too many games to recall the specifics of our map.

I agree with Eris, about now is where I just get lost and stop thinking about the future game plan. Interested to see where we are heading with the techs and future development of this continent.

Alright, then after we've defeated Germany maybe we should do more discussion on our future plans and the what/why/how of those decisions. No point in playing on if everyone isn't understanding why we chose what we did and why we didn't go with some other option.
 
lurker's comment:
Another reason to explore the seas is this: you haven't found much variety in the way of city-states. If you want to play around with having CS allies, you need to find them first.
 
I have found, when annexing puppet cities, that indeed you cannot buy a Courthouse, but you can buy a Colliseum. That's four of your five unhappiness points for annexed cities. It is still worth waiting until they start building something you don't want them to make or at least not yet.
 
I think we can simply destroy Berlin now, it doesn't matter if we lose a horse or even two. I'd move three horses to the north east of the city, then attack on the next turn with all of them (scout first tho, if he has fortified a unit on that hill we better go around).

After Berlin, we should really clear all those barb camps ;) And finish exploring the south. I don't think we have other civs there, or they would have found us by now, but we need to know the land.

Tech: high prio on sailing -> astronomy now, maybe build a trireme to find if we have coastal access to other civs.

Rome: library after horseman. I feel tempted to try for the pyramids (especially with all this land around to improve!), but I suppose we won't have time to finish them. Up to group to decide I guess..

=> But our primary goal after the war should be to get libraries up fast, for scientist specialists (we need to up that science rate).

We have time to decide for other city spots, but I would like to get the marble in the west for even more happiness. Also would be nice to have a coastal city on that side of the continent. Then we should prioritize river spots for new cities wherever possible.

EDIT: wanted to add a picture with a road suggestion, but Photobucket seems unavailable to me. Hope you can imagine it from my description: build a road from Rome directly toward Si Sachanalai. From there you can take a short road toward antium, and then toward Sukhothai. Its not much, saves 2 roads overall, but hey, we aren't yet swimming in cash, so... :)
 
I haven't looked at the save but I plan on going in with the horsemen and taking Berlin in as few turns as possible. With any luck, this will provide us with another worker. Workers will be slapping down roads and trading posts mostly, and my build priority will be libraries.
 
So, I took the turns, thanks Methos for letting me get in some war!

I was left with some tricky descisions about where to send units, since Berlin was only accessible by two pieces of land, and one of those was a hill with a fortified spearman (bad news for our horses!) But I think that I did what was best :)

Also, I failed at proper note taking this time around, so you'll have to excuse me if I missed anything out - I did screenshot most of the important stuff :)

During my turns, construction finished researching, and after I researched trapping I chose to go for Archery->Mathmatics next, in case we need to build courthouses at any point.

Workers do various things, such as completing a trade route, make a sart on some trading posts, a mine on the iron near Rome and a plantation on some incence. I do attempt to complete Siam's mine but going there reveals a barbarian encampment so the worker retreats.

As for building, Antium finishes it's monument and starts on a library, and Rome finishes it's horseman and starts on a colleseum (since we're in negative happiness now and taking Berlin took us scarily close to the -10 threshold)

Turn 90

I move one of our horsemen a bit closer to Berlin, which reveals the rest of his army - a spearman (eek) three warriors and an archer. I move the rest of our units into position, including the warrior who's hiding in Hamburg.
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Turn 91

A Great General is born! After quite a lot of thought, I use him to give us a golden age, since we already have our GG down in the thick of things, and we don't want this one to be costing us extra maintenance and not doing anything. The golden age will be awesome for our emerging empire. Also do some more shifting of troops in the front line (take the warrior near the spearman, and use our horsemen to take care of German warriors south of Berlin)
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Turn 92

Our units are finally in place and are surrounding Berlin :) The warrior was lost, unfortunately, but it weakened the spearman enough for the northen horseman to come in and kill it despite the spearman's bonus against our horse.

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Turn 93

Sadly, we lose a unit. But we have a replacement on it's way from Rome, so we're still good to go. The attack on Berlin continues.

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Turn 94

He wants peace! We've almost decemated him. I decline ;)
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Another social policy! I adopt military tradition. Can't shake a stick at double experience!
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In a last ditch attempt to defend himself, Bismarck moves the archer out of the city to block up the tile south of it. One horseman dusts the archer off quite nicely, leaving the other two to come in and stomp all over Berlin! Bismarck turns out to be a pretty good loser and congratulates us on our success!

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Turns 95 - 100

In the remaining turns, I heal up our horsemen, check up on citizen placement in Rome and Antium, and explore the rest of our island south of Berlin. I come across one barbarian camp with an archer, which is cleared easily by a horseman. Another of the horses is also sent north to begin to deal with the encampments that litter that land around us.

Turns out Berlin did have a worker, but his land is woefully un-improved. I set the worker loose on the dye for now. He'll probably want to hit the silver next.

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On my very last turn, we get the announcement of people with the pointiest sticks! It's not us!

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That was a good set of turns :) as I mentioned above, please accept my apologies for how inprecise this write up is, as I got quite into the war and totally forgot to note down what I was doing!
 
Thanks for the save!

I pointed this out in another thread, but thought I should mention it here. My intent is that whomever is playing the final turnset will save the game on the turn before victory and upload that save to this thread. That way all of us can download the save and play the final turn on our own computer, thereby earning the "beat King level" achievement (if you don't already have it) and putting this game on your personal Hall of Fame table.
 
Lux resources on our continent that we don't have:
  • Furs: Tyre has one source, but its a militaristic CS, which IMO suck. Personally I'd prefer to capture the city rather then ally with it. Bucharest has furs too. They're a cultured CS which would be nice for the :culture: bonus to all our cities.
  • Ivory: Also controlled by a militaristic CS. Luckily Rio also has a source and Rio is a maritime CS, which makes an excellent ally.
  • Marble: Far west. It looks like we could settle on the desert tile and have access to the Marble, Wheat, Cow, and Horse.

While we don't need additional copies of the lux resources we already have, they do make for a great source of income.

Let's not forget our UA, but let's not also forget that our UA doesn't appear to work with purchasing buildings. I noticed in Antium a library is stil 420 :gold:, so I suggest only buying buildings in Rome and having our other cities hand build them.

My preference for tech path is:
  • Currency: mints and markets. we have a lot of silver on our continent, so mints would be excellent.
  • Sailing: Workboats and tiremens.
  • Optics: ability to embark units. I'm thinking an embarked scout.
  • Philosopy:
  • Theology: Monastaries would be nice, especially with all the incense and wine we have.
  • Education: Universities +50% :science:
  • Compass:
  • Astronomy: ocean going caravel, observatories, and embarked units can cross ocean

This is just my current opinion. I'm open to other options and arguments. I don't see a reason to work on military techs at the moment, since we have no immediate threat. My preference is to build up our infrastructure so we're stable upon meeting the other continent.

We have a good surplus of gold at the moment, which I'm unsure what to use it for just yet. Upon learning sailing I'm tempted to buy a WB for Rome's fish.

I currently don't see a strong reason to annex any of our puppets, but once our happiness gets back up it won't be too long before we hit a golden age. At that time if we're going to do any annexing, it should be during a GA when production is higher. Just something to consider for the future.

I'll stop for now, as I'd like to hear your opinions. What directions, or directions, do you desire? Upon meeting the other continent, do you wish to takeover any of the AIs to gain a foothold on the continent, or not, or something else? Right now is when we really want to consider our future plans, because its at this point that we start implementing them. Even though we have no idea about the other continent, or continents, we still need to be ready before we meet them. This is one the reasons I like to make sure we have a stable empire on our continent before we meet them.
 
I like the idea of saving the last turn. Nice touch. For me, it will also be an accomplishment for winning with Rome. (Assuming the win) I avoided the civ for gameplay reasons for a while and then because I saw this game coming. Not a big deal, but it will complete my collection of civs won with. :)

Some suggestions to start the conversation....


We need expansion via Settler since I am not thrilled with the idea of beating up our City State neighbors. We need happiness. (Sukothai has a Circus in three turns!) We need to get off this island! And we only have two real working cities.

Some suggestions. Have Antium stop the Coliseum for a while in preference for a Settler. This lets Rome complete its Coliseum and give Antium a 25% bonus on its Coliseum. Sukhothai's Circus and working resources should get us through the delay of four happy from Antium. If I have it understood, Rome will finish its Colliseum about the time Antium finishes a Settler.

Buy a Settler. Get enough Barb camp cash to buy another. I like that trick. Or....

Consider Annexing Hamburg. They are building a Wall. Yuck and double yuck. Spend 680 Gold to buy Hamburg a Coliseum. It's a waste of Rome's UA but it is four Happy right away for the Annexed city and then we can guide its actions. We could have it start a Trireme. (Question: If Rome had its Coliseum built, would it affect the purchase cost of a Coliseum. I suspect not.)

Tech is a major puzzle for me. I understand we need to get to Astronomy as soon as possible. There are a couple of detours that are tempting: Engineering, Currency, and Civil Service. I would argue, for lack of better notion, to study Engineering next and then beeline to Astronomy. I love Civil Service, but it is expensive and we don't have that many river farms yet. I could easily be persuaded for Currency for the chance of a Market in Rome encouraging Markets in our Puppet states. In my regular style, I would be going for philosophy and the Oracle, but I think that Rome's UA is a strong argument against building Wonders in your Capitol City. You need to be focused on buildings other cities will build. At least that is my interpretation as a self admitted wonder-hog.
 
We need expansion via Settler since I am not thrilled with the idea of beating up our City State neighbors.

Agree. I hate attacking CSs unless absolutely necessary. If so, remember that only ever do so once. If you do it a second time, you're pretty much at war with all the city states.

Have Antium stop the Coliseum for a while in preference for a Settler. This lets Rome complete its Coliseum and give Antium a 25% bonus on its Coliseum. If I have it understood, Rome will finish its Colliseum about the time Antium finishes a Settler.

I like this idea. Remembering and benefitting from our UA is something we definitely need to use and pay attention too. I don't have the game loaded any more, so I'm not sure if they would finish around the same time. Even if they don't, your idea is one we should use.

Consider Annexing Hamburg. They are building a Wall.

While I don't like the idea of a wall either, its part of the balance of puppet cities. I can't recall Hamburg, but I'm fairly certain the city isn't good enough IMO to make it worth annexing. Of the two, Berlin would be more desirable and I'm not even sure I'd annex it.

(Question: If Rome had its Coliseum built, would it affect the purchase cost of a Coliseum. I suspect not.)

I'm guessing you missed my post above, or my comment on this topic. I checked Antium and a library would cost 420 :gold:, which is the normal price to rush a library. So it looks like our UA doesn't affect rushing buildings already built in Rome.

Tech is a major puzzle for me.

I'm curious what everyone's opinions are regarding our tech choice. Hopefully everyone gives their opinion and explains as to why they choose their route. Note, our puppets can only build buildings based off of techs we know.
 
I'm guessing you missed my post above, or my comment on this topic. I checked Antium and a library would cost 420 :gold:, which is the normal price to rush a library. So it looks like our UA doesn't affect rushing buildings already built in Rome.

I am theoretically doing what they pay me for, although I have more flexibility on that than most. I also type slowly while thinking. I had my reply text box open for a long while. I strongly suspect that you posted in the interval I was composing and posting. Some people are just sneaky like that and can't help it.

I am hoping for other opinions. To me, this is interesting, being on a military goal that has been shaped by geography.
 
As I posted above, I would make sailing and optics a priority, then build a trireme or two and explore the coast. Its not likely, but maybe we have (pre-astronomy) access to other civs via coastal waters.

If we find nothing, I think we have two options really: beeline towards astronomy, then embark our horses and move over to the next continent. Or, decide to scrap our war plans for now and build up peacefully, then at a later point decide if we go to war again.

I am not sure if plan A is workable. By the time we get to astronomy, the civs on the other continent will likely be well ahead and have pikemen etc, making a "continued rush" impossible. So I think its better to focus on economy and production techs after sailing.

Personally, in this situation I would lean back and go for a relaxed diplo or space win, and not get involved in further wars :) But lets see what our group thinks.
 
Personally, in this situation I would lean back and go for a relaxed diplo or space win, and not get involved in further wars :) But lets see what our group thinks.

Ditto :)

:D In all honesty, I'd do the same, but I'm not sure that would make for a very good learning experience, or a SG. ;)
 
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