1889
Mayor of H-Marker Lake
I really think we should make some response to GCA in our defence, there is no telling what they will make of our silence.
Term 3. Welcome to the Foreign Ministry.
- Thread starter classical_hero
- Start date
1889
Mayor of H-Marker Lake
Edited and sent.
classical_hero
In whom I trust
I have made a proposal for a chat with BAT.
1889
Mayor of H-Marker Lake
According to the civilopedia scouts are military units. Maybe we should inform that we consider galleys civilian units.
classical_hero
In whom I trust
@ The President. I think all the messages sent to the BAT Email gets forwarded to all the members, which is why we get an error message from them, but it is not for all the people though.
@1889, I think we should inform GCA that scouts are actually military units, so they really need to have asked permission before coming to our territory, since it not civilian
@1889, I think we should inform GCA that scouts are actually military units, so they really need to have asked permission before coming to our territory, since it not civilian
robboo
Deity
you guys need to chill out a bit about the scout...it cant attack and we dont need quite so juvenile about it. We went in their territory in violation of the treaty. Just let them thru. Otherwise we may grow more distrust between our civs.
classical_hero
In whom I trust
We basically want to treat them like they are treating us.
1889
Mayor of H-Marker Lake
GCA went through all the trouble of writing that treaty just so they can extract every bit of advantage out of our interactions regardless of how miniscule, their scouts can go were ever but they can delay our warriors. I think we are right to be distrustful of such people, in my experience teams that offer such lawyerly treaties will at some point exploit some loophole and back stab their partners. I assume our galley will be going north and GCA is going to say we need a new treaty for boats. I can only guess how long it will take for them to create such a document but it won’t happen before we waste a few turns.
I say we inform them that the scout is a military unit according to the Civilopedia and that we will consider their request. However we can concede that the treaty was poorly written or confusing and maybe we should just scrap it in favor of in-game open borders, especially now that Civ III type violations are not possible.
I say we inform them that the scout is a military unit according to the Civilopedia and that we will consider their request. However we can concede that the treaty was poorly written or confusing and maybe we should just scrap it in favor of in-game open borders, especially now that Civ III type violations are not possible.
azzaman333
meh
TBH, I cant see us going to the 2nd round the way we are conducting diplomacy at the moment.
robboo
Deity
Coudlnt agree more....We need to be "nicer" in diplo and more manipulative later on. Honestly we will/are losing this game because we are not playing with a level non-emotional head. We started off by having a grudge against the teams based on the Civ 3 game.
In other words...either replying saying have fun looking around....or just dont reply.
I also request that the reply be voted on if you guys decide that the scout is a violation of the treaty. It has no ability of attacking so it shouldnt be considered a military unit. A galley on the other hand does have the ability of attacking.
1889
Mayor of H-Marker Lake
Weather we're winning or not, there is plenty of time for that to change.
We should recognize that there will be war eventually no matter how friendly we are. Putting so much effort into being nice leaves us open to a surprise when one of our friends discovers that we are in the way of their victory. We tried cooperation with BAT but it was premature. We tried friendship with GCA but it was one sided. Close neighbors make such poor friends anyway; Id rather talk to whoever is on the other side of them. We are also past due for some conversation with COG, how about a 20 turn peace deal and open borders? We can offer the same to GWT. We really just need to find more excuses to contact these teams whatever the reason.
We should recognize that there will be war eventually no matter how friendly we are. Putting so much effort into being nice leaves us open to a surprise when one of our friends discovers that we are in the way of their victory. We tried cooperation with BAT but it was premature. We tried friendship with GCA but it was one sided. Close neighbors make such poor friends anyway; Id rather talk to whoever is on the other side of them. We are also past due for some conversation with COG, how about a 20 turn peace deal and open borders? We can offer the same to GWT. We really just need to find more excuses to contact these teams whatever the reason.
robboo
Deity
So we should just be mean and not nice to everyone so we would expect an attack.
how about this plan... we appear nice and act clueless all the while preparing for all of them to attack us. They get lulled into a false sense of security and we can then claim to the other nations that they attacked us and were aggressive despite our friendly relations. Their other friends will get supisicous of them and we may gain an allie after they attack us. ( they is who ever not any specific team) Its not a sign of weakness to be nice or appear to buckle in to them...its only weakness if you allow them to kill us. I rather be thought a push over and then kick their butts than to appear to be the bully and have everyone dogpile us.
As far as contacting the other teams....just drop them a note asking how they are doing and what they think of the map. If we have a deal with them...mention it and say how we look forward to more co-operation in the future.
how about this plan... we appear nice and act clueless all the while preparing for all of them to attack us. They get lulled into a false sense of security and we can then claim to the other nations that they attacked us and were aggressive despite our friendly relations. Their other friends will get supisicous of them and we may gain an allie after they attack us. ( they is who ever not any specific team) Its not a sign of weakness to be nice or appear to buckle in to them...its only weakness if you allow them to kill us. I rather be thought a push over and then kick their butts than to appear to be the bully and have everyone dogpile us.
As far as contacting the other teams....just drop them a note asking how they are doing and what they think of the map. If we have a deal with them...mention it and say how we look forward to more co-operation in the future.
1889
Mayor of H-Marker Lake
I think we've been really nice to everyone so far. Despite that GCA just wants to jerk us around. While we wait for permission to continue our explorations and make contact with other teams they are enjoying the significant benefits of foreign trade routes. We can keep being nice like that and lose a little ground each time.
Making others appear to be the aggressor is a useful tactic that we try to take advantage of, but its probably overrated in this game where there isn't really any public or effective media to sway their opinion. In any case nobody is even remotely considering a declaration of war let alone an actual attack.
What is procedure for proposing diplomatic mesages? I think we will need another thread to keep it organized.
Making others appear to be the aggressor is a useful tactic that we try to take advantage of, but its probably overrated in this game where there isn't really any public or effective media to sway their opinion. In any case nobody is even remotely considering a declaration of war let alone an actual attack.
What is procedure for proposing diplomatic mesages? I think we will need another thread to keep it organized.
zyxy
Warmongering Fool
I don't think this is a matter of being nice or aggressive, or playing dumb - that's all just tactical detail. I do think we need to be more clear internally about what we want to achieve, and then work to accomplish this. Right now it is totally unclear (at least to me) what our diplomatic stance is towards any other team, how we wish the relationship to develop, what we think to gain from it and what we can offer. The long term view is totally missing (not just for diplo btw).
Both our diplo efforts sofar are illustrative examples. First there was the tech agreement with BAT that never went beyond the stage of "intentions". We cannot even claim that BAT violated the agreement, because there is none.
And now there is the OB with CGA. We wanted an OB, CGA offers something that is an OB in name but not in practice, we blindly sign it, and then violate the terms of the agreement. CGA probably mistrusts us now, but decided not to turn this into a crisis.
I think it would help a lot if we established some rules to avoid this mess in the future.
(1) The foreign minister should take the initiative to organize discussions and establish decisions (through polls, if needed) in the area of diplomacy.
(2) Treaties should be discussed and polled before they are accepted. It would be helpful if they were listed in a separate sticky thread.
Both our diplo efforts sofar are illustrative examples. First there was the tech agreement with BAT that never went beyond the stage of "intentions". We cannot even claim that BAT violated the agreement, because there is none.
And now there is the OB with CGA. We wanted an OB, CGA offers something that is an OB in name but not in practice, we blindly sign it, and then violate the terms of the agreement. CGA probably mistrusts us now, but decided not to turn this into a crisis.
I think it would help a lot if we established some rules to avoid this mess in the future.
(1) The foreign minister should take the initiative to organize discussions and establish decisions (through polls, if needed) in the area of diplomacy.
(2) Treaties should be discussed and polled before they are accepted. It would be helpful if they were listed in a separate sticky thread.
1889
Mayor of H-Marker Lake
Those are great points and helpful rules. I think Clasical Hero is on vacation or something, maybe we should deputise someone.
BTW 18 turns 'til elections maybe we'll have a little more interest this time.
BTW 18 turns 'til elections maybe we'll have a little more interest this time.
I can outline my goals for the presidency if need be?
not right now i have an essay to do but if anyone is wondering where i want to take the presidency im more than happy to answer any of your questions anytime.
also maybe not in this thread
not right now i have an essay to do but if anyone is wondering where i want to take the presidency im more than happy to answer any of your questions anytime.
also maybe not in this thread
