Worrying review: Tom Chick says AI and Diplomacy are dumb. Has "Serious Problems"

I've played the Civ series for 18 or so years now. Every game, every expansion including CTP, Col, and Rev. Here are a few thoughts about the AI and series in general.

-the AI has never been very bright. That is not likely to change. Yet the series has always provided, countless hours of fun and enjoyment.

-if past offerings are any indication (and i believe that they are) i am expecting "vanilla" Civ 5 at release, to be followed by a expansion and or dlc that brings the game to it's full potential. This was the case with both civ 3 and 4.

The game is going to offer the same level of fun and enjoyment we have come to expect from this series. No, the Ai will not be perfect, but imho that has never really taken away from the fun, and in the end that's what counts.
 
Most of the reviews have been very positive so far. The game has a 96 on metacritic, with 9 reviews so far, so it's even beating CivIV at the moment (I'm sure the negative reviews will come later, however). Interesting article about Chick here: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2010/06/29/tom-chick-the-man-who-hated-deus-ex/

He still doesn't like deus ex, so his review is moot to me (it's one of the best games of the last decade).
solidsmooky said:
You guys forget its always that one guy with enough resolve that speaks truth to power in the face of positive reviews. He could be right!!
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yeah...I'm sure that's it :)
ZimbuTheMonkey said:
Tom Chick is one of the best reviewers, especially for strategy games.
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Never heard of him either
ZimbuTheMonkey said:
More like you just read his Wikipedia entry and are now going to use that as some leverage to discredit him.
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Yeah, pretty much (googled him), but that's really all it takes. It's like if he'd said CivIV was a 2-star game, or that WoW was a failure. When you're so wrong about one really excellent game, it's hard to imagine you could have a good sense of what constitutes a good game for other people.
 
Thormodr said:
Of course. No one expects human level AI.
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People say that, but I've played enough humans at Civ4 to know that a high proportion were easier to beat than the AI on noble difficult. Incredible, but true.
 
Well, Tom Chick is one of the very few reviewers that I have come to trust over the years. When deciding whether or not to buy a game, I usually read his reviews and the one at Eurogamer. This doesn't have an impact on my Civ5 purchase (pre-ordered a long time ago), and the AI issues, if they exist, aren't a surprise to me. With the removal of the stack of doom the AI is further challenged, so this is pretty much what I expected would happen. But Tom Chick is one of the few professional reviewers that have remained fairly independent.
 
Plus, you can live every red-blooded American's dream of nuking Brussels (pictured). That'll teach them to foist their bitter sprouts on the rest of the world!
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This I don't understand. Why would Americans want to nuke Brussels? What sprouts? Is he referring to the EU?

Someone please elaborate.

EDIT: Sorry for posting OT, I just realized. I wouldn't put too much faith in any reviewer. They just don't know the in and outs of the franchise like we do. Besides, it took Fraxis 2 expansions to improve the Civ 4 AI to a decent level. It's more than likely that the release AI will have more than a few flaws.
 
Humble Humbert said:
This I don't understand. Why would Americans want to nuke Brussels? What sprouts? Is he referring to the EU?

Someone please elaborate.
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Google is your friend.

A brussel sprout is considered a horrible vegetable...many children are force fed them.

I believe a US President at one point said he didn't like them, and the farmers of that vegetable dumped tonnes of them at the White House. That may have been another unpopular childhood vegetable however...
 
I could never get into MP anyways, turns take way too long and you can't pause, so the AI better be good for me.
 
Brussel Sprouts are excellent when they are steamed and spiced just right. :D
 
kittenOFchaos said:
A brussel sprout is considered a horrible vegetable...many children are force fed them.
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That is an overstatement. We like it in Poland. But I've seen that in so many american movies I'm beginning to thing it's American-related :)
 
krzysp said:
That is an overstatement. We like it in Poland. But I've seen that in so many american movies I'm beginning to thing it's American-related :)
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The Poles have had a harsh history. For you, a brussel sprout it like heaven. For us decadent westerners, it is abit nasty and causes bad wind :D
 
I almost laughed when I heard people really buy into that "our AI has 4 different levels so it must be good" marketing crap. Seriously, the AI having four distinct levels could actually be argued to make it worse, not better: If you have a level that decides on a local base, that means the AI probably won't move units where they are needed from a strategic point of view but will keep them around a city because it thinks they have to defend there, like in Civ4.

I never expect an AI I would call "good" from any game. Civ4 had actually one of the better game AIs after it was fully patched but it's still not good, of course. Just compare with Total War, Europa Universalis or other similarly complex games and the AI in Civ4 suddenly looks a lot better. The most glaring issues are tactical, and so far I've never seen a good tactical AI.
 
Even if there are some day 0 issues, Firaxis is probably one of the most responsive gaming companies in the industry. If there is a big enough outcry, they'll patch it. My $60 is an investment in what I am sure will be the staple of strategy games for the next 2-3 years.
 
alpaca said:
I almost laughed when I heard people really buy into that "our AI has 4 different levels so it must be good" marketing crap. Seriously, the AI having four distinct levels could actually be argued to make it worse, not better: If you have a level that decides on a local base, that means the AI probably won't move units where they are needed from a strategic point of view but will keep them around a city because it thinks they have to defend there, like in Civ4.

I never expect an AI I would call "good" from any game. Civ4 had actually one of the better game AIs after it was fully patched but it's still not good, of course. Just compare with Total War, Europa Universalis or other similarly complex games and the AI in Civ4 suddenly looks a lot better. The most glaring issues are tactical, and so far I've never seen a good tactical AI.
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All true, but in defense of Firaxis I must say that a lot of the issues with Civ IV AI were caused by the lack of various levels of AI processing ( my favourite example is that , when you have a shrine to build, the AI in civ IV will try to get one Prophet in every city. Why? Because there is simply no way to tell to one city and just one city to run priests due to the lack of a real governor AI ). Sure, it has the potential to be worse, I don't discuss that ... but it was necessary.

And yes, Civ IV is still one of the better AI in strategical games, especially in ones that are not scripted/map constrained. Atleast it will not attack you just because you have a city with little garrisons on the border , like all the TW games up to now :D
 
I would be completely happy if the V AI at launch is 'as good' as the Civ IV AI is now.
 
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