Science Victory - too easy/rediculous?

fallout3dc said:
bubububububububububububuerrrr. Wat???
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If you want a diplomatic victory, you need to have a large number of delegates in the world congress. However, a rival civilization with a large sum of gpt and good economy can often be a challenge in taking away allies that you have or city states that you have paid off. For example, you can pay off a city state to be your ally but then the next turn, the rival civilization can also pay off that same city state and take away the new ally that you just had, making the city state no longer your ally and the diplomatic victory a lot harder to get.. Having 1 city state taken away from you isn't as bad as it seems but if more city states get taken away it really adds up.
 
reddishrecue said:
If you want a diplomatic victory, you need to have a large number of delegates in the world congress. However, a rival civilization with a large sum of gpt and good economy can often be a challenge in taking away allies that you have or city states that you have paid off. For example, you can pay off a city state to be your ally but then the next turn, the rival civilization can also pay off that same city state and take away the new ally that you just had, making the city state no longer your ally and the diplomatic victory a lot harder to get.. Having 1 city state taken away from you isn't as bad as it seems but if more city states get taken away it really adds up.
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Even despite that diplomatic is the easiest way to go. Use spies to gain influence in the CS that rival civs are mostly contending with. Go Freedom and get the tenet that increases your influence per turn via trade routes and pay attention to CS quests. As long as your science and gold are enough all the CS will eventually be allies. The only frustrating part is missing that first leader vote by 1-2 votes and having to wait 20 turns for the next one. Sweden really excels here as you'll have enough extra GW and GA to donate for influence.

Domination is just so damn time consuming for me. I can finish a science or diplomatic game 10x faster. The only dom game I enjoyed was the Poland deity OOC challenge. Culture really depends on the civ. Polynesia is easiest if playing any type of island map but other civs can be very challenging and there is also the time factor involved with digging up sites, moving GM to other civs when there are tons of units on the board. For me the list from easiest to hardest is

diplomatic
science
culture
dom
 
Not trying to be a douche or anything but I just want to point out that its ridiculous not rediculous.

Anyway with that said I think science victories are easier than the other victories (besides diplomatic it you stay peaceful all of the way through the game) but they do require a quite well planned strategy all of the way through the game. You also should have to keep up a good economy as buying extra science can sometimes be vital to beating your other science powerhouses to the technologies. You also have to be fairly peaceful (some people do anyway) as wars often reduce happiness, GPT and, most importantly, the amount of +science you gain.

It is worth noting that playing as Babylon (a science and top tier civ) or Korea (another science civ, not sure what tier :p) makes a science victory extremely easy to squire compared to the other victory types.

So to conclude I don't fully agree with your statement that science is too easy but it is one of the easiest victories of all.

-Greyhound :p
 
I guess we need to define what is too easy. What is easy in the context of the question. Is it what victory types are too fast? Which are the hardest to slow down by others? Or is it which requires the least understanding of what you are doing to win?

Speed wise, I really do not think Science is too easy, as several other victory conditions are much easier to beat science times, though science victory times are consistent.

The A.I. choices have little impact on a science victory, so in that way, science doesn't have much to worry about from the other civ's other than losing their cities, which puts all victories in jeopardy.

Understanding what it takes to win, then it is easier than culture and domination. Perhaps even diplomacy.

They are all somewhat balanced when it comes to people who understand the game, but for a new comer, then science may appear to be super easy, as it is pretty straight forward to do.
 
Uzael36 said:
Science may seem to be the simplest goal, but it is not the fastest road to victory. Diplomatic victories are also very simple as well.

Culture victories may require a little more knowledge to win, but they can be won just as fast, and if you exploit sacred sites with a sprawling empire, you can win in ridiculously fast times.

Domination games are also quite fast and just require you to learn to manage your units and build times.

All victory conditions are fairly balanced on how long it takes, with domination and culture being the quickest by the more knowledge crowd and diplomatic victories are simply the easiest.

I think you may feel science is so easy because that is what you learned to do first, and is the base of most victory times, so you are better at it. It isn't the fastest way to win, however.
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I 100% agree with everything you said here. Each are "easy" if you are focused on a specific victory condition.
 
In terms of speed, domination and culture can be done the fastest, both being doable before the modern era.

In terms of ease, diplo is considered the easiest, and the fall back in case other VC fail, just buy all the city states before the vote and win. Accomplish this by taking loans from your ai friends. Also you can declare war on all the AIs so they can't buy your allies in the last turn. Time is probably the hardest.mthough if you didn't generate any tourism, and sold the capitals to other Civs, you could feasibly warmonger most other Civs into the ground without accidentally winning another VC. Science generally requires a very focused tech path and unit use for the fastest victories (turn 200) and the people who hedge their bets by doing all gold cargo ships and controlling the world congress are of course going to find Diplo easier, because they spent all game pursuing a diplo victory despite thinking they were perusing a science victory.

Also I don't remember the last time I got satellites in a diplo victory.
 
You consider culture one of the faster victories? I feel like that one takes forever because it's chancy to collect the wonders that speed the victory early on.
 
Primacide said:
You consider culture one of the faster victories? I feel like that one takes forever because it's chancy to collect the wonders that speed the victory early on.
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Can being the operative word. Often it is quite slow, waiting till internet then doing faith bought musician tours. I was referring to the sacred site tactic, of spamming cities and buildings till you win.
 
Even the traditional method finishes similar to SV, but the ICS method can crush any SV time.
 
teqofc said:
Even despite that diplomatic is the easiest way to go. Use spies to gain influence in the CS that rival civs are mostly contending with. Go Freedom and get the tenet that increases your influence per turn via trade routes and pay attention to CS quests. As long as your science and gold are enough all the CS will eventually be allies. The only frustrating part is missing that first leader vote by 1-2 votes and having to wait 20 turns for the next one. Sweden really excels here as you'll have enough extra GW and GA to donate for influence.

Domination is just so damn time consuming for me. I can finish a science or diplomatic game 10x faster. The only dom game I enjoyed was the Poland deity OOC challenge. Culture really depends on the civ. Polynesia is easiest if playing any type of island map but other civs can be very challenging and there is also the time factor involved with digging up sites, moving GM to other civs when there are tons of units on the board. For me the list from easiest to hardest is

diplomatic
science
culture
dom
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It might depend on how you're playing with domination. I've found that if it's going to happen, it's easier if it happens pretty early in the game, like before the Atomic era. It almost seems like if the game drags on, domination gets more and more unlikely, and you have to rely on backing into it (like capturing a capital from a massive Civilization, forcing a Peace Treaty and then sneaking your way into capturing another unlikely capital before that Peace Treaty expires).

When I made this thread I was pretty new to this game, and I probably agree now that Diplo is probably the easiest, and kind of suffers from the same problem. Basically if you're dominating enough for a late game culture or domination win, you'd probably be getting a Diplo or Science win unless you were going out of your way not too.

I started another thread about this, about how it seems like the late game combat units are worthless because by the time that you could get to them and send them out to conquer, you could have already won on science.
 
Trackmaster said:
Victory by space travel isn't even realistic. We did that back in the 60's, but yet the world still goes on and nobody thinks that America has dominated the world just because we did it.
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This is somewhat off-topic, but ever since Civilization I it has annoyed me that the "science" or "space" victory condition involves flying a giant colony ship carrying thousands of colonists to a star system several light years away by the year 2050 or earlier. Meanwhile in real life we haven't even managed to land people on Mars for crying out loud. Isn't it time the Civilization series adopted diminished expectations? A Mars landing seems like a much more realistic or sensible science victory. Maybe Civilization VI will adopt this idea? LOL who am I kidding... :rolleyes:

This reminds me of my favorite quotation, by Yankees catcher Yogi Berra: "The future ain't what it used to be."
 
Kirin Rider said:
This is somewhat off-topic, but ever since Civilization I it has annoyed me that the "science" or "space" victory condition involves flying a giant colony ship carrying thousands of colonists to a star system several light years away by the year 2050 or earlier. Meanwhile in real life we haven't even managed to land people on Mars for crying out loud. Isn't it time the Civilization series adopted diminished expectations? A Mars landing seems like a much more realistic or sensible science victory. Maybe Civilization VI will adopt this idea? LOL who am I kidding... :rolleyes:

This reminds me of my favorite quotation, by Yankees catcher Yogi Berra: "The future ain't what it used to be."
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It's easy to be an airchair quarterback and say "Oh we have all this technology, why are we confined to this puny little planet in this vast universe." But in reality, we all know that we're here because of the Goldy Locks complex. There are no planets within a feasible reach that would be hospitable for our life (or any known life really), or any that have actually been discovered. The most that we could hope for is to colonize another planet and have a Wall-E or Jetsons-like existence without ever being able to go outside and living completely off technology and computers (and then where would the power and sustainability come from after awhile?).

Let's face it, the homo sapien will probably forever be confined to the planet Earth. At least as far as pragmatic long-term living. We can dance on our Moon and plant a flag for a few minutes all that we want.
 
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