Warmonger hate observations

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King
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Mar 12, 2008
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http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Warmongering_(Civ5)

So from what i can tell if you have 50 points of warmonger hate, it should decay at a rate of 5 per turn and be gone in 10 turns right?

But ingame the time it takes for warmonger hate to decay is ridiculously long....the warmonger hate is almost the same even after 100 years of peace. Why is that?
 
Ahh so there is a way to actually see your warmonger score?
The article was a little unclear on the precise method.
 
Warmonger amount is different from warmonger score.

To use a numerical example, on a standard map (est num cities = 52), with 35 cities actually on the map, and a war target with only 3 cities, you will accrue 495.24 of warmonger amount by taking one city. That number decays 5 per turn -- gonna take longer than 10 turns to put a dent in that.

A civ with a hate warmonger score of 5 (middle of the road) will assign you a warmonger score of 24.76 for taking that city (minor threat level), and that score will decline by 0.25 per turn -- i.e., it will take 100 turns to fall to zero -- and that assumes you don't do anything in those 100 turns to accrue more warmonger amount.
 
So play a better diplomacy game. Get the civ you want to kill into a war with everybody else before you declare so that you get the "common enemy" bonus to counteract the warmonger thing.

In the real world countries go around building up their case on the international diplomacy circuit before they invade. I kind of like that you have to do that in civ as well, at least if you want to be a warmonger.

Often there's a civ I want to take down just after the world congress is founded. How do you do that without pissing off everybody? Well nobody has formed an opinion yet at that point so it's a golden opporunity -- propose a world congress vote that everybody will love you for, say, world's fair. Enter into lopsided trade deals with all the nations you just met, so that they like you. Then denounce the civ you want to DOW on, bribe a few of your new friends into a war with your hapless victim, and then be everybody's hero by declaring war.
 
I hate having to pay civs to attack another AI though, most of the time they just move their units in their borders and do nothing.

A civ with a hate warmonger score of 5 (middle of the road) will assign you a warmonger score of 24.76 for taking that city (minor threat level), and that score will decline by 0.25 per turn
Click to expand...

Why 0.25 per turn and not 5?

Im also confused as to why warmonger decay is the only one with a negative integer, while all the other decay values are positive? Like this one :

<Row Name="EXPANSION_PROMISE_BROKEN_PER_TURN_DECAY">
<Value>40</Value>
</Row>

If a negative value means reduction per turn, doesnt this mean breaking expansion promises results in a increase of 40 for every single turn, for the rest of the game?

Also is it just me or do some negative modifiers never decay? Like being caught spying?
 
No i mean, if the game code specifies that the decay is 5, why is the actual ingame decay 0.25?
 
The game code specifies that warmonger amount decays by 5 per turn, not warmonger score. Two different things.

If a particular warmonger amount (say 500) corresponds to roughly 25 warmonger score with a particular civ, and warmonger amount decays by 5 per turn (i.e., -1% per turn), how much will warmonger score decay per turn?
 
Okay, im guessing theres no way to see what a particular civ's warmonger hate score is (how much they hate warmongers)?

Also can someone confirm whether certain hate (like spies being caught stealing tech, competing city states, etc) will decay? I cant find the code for it...
 
Germans still suffer in terms of public opinion for the the world wars and that is like 70-100 years ago. Heck even the mongolians are still remembered for their brutal empire (dont know what else they have done to be honest). As a Swede our country along with the other Nordic ones are still associated with the very brutal vikings and that is 1000 years ago. Not that it gives a bad public opinion, probably the other way around seeing how romanticized the vikings are. But I have heard that in the Czech republic they used to scare children with that the Swedes would come if they did not behave and Poland still sing about the Swedish occupation and that is 400 years ago. My point is that if you are a warmonger it will take some effort to get rid of that label. No one see Sweden as a waring nation but it have taken 200 years of peace and a lot of diplomatic efforts to get to that point. It just did not happen overnight.
 
I'm not sure I understand the numbers that Browd posts, but I can say this much to OP: The decay factor of 5 is not actually 5 but is later divided by 100, so actual decay is 0.05 points each turn.
 
johnny_rudeboy said:
Germans still suffer in terms of public opinion for the the world wars and that is like 70-100 years ago. Heck even the mongolians are still remembered for their brutal empire (dont know what else they have done to be honest). As a Swede our country along with the other Nordic ones are still associated with the very brutal vikings and that is 1000 years ago. Not that it gives a bad public opinion, probably the other way around seeing how romanticized the vikings are. But I have heard that in the Czech republic they used to scare children with that the Swedes would come if they did not behave and Poland still sing about the Swedish occupation and that is 400 years ago. My point is that if you are a warmonger it will take some effort to get rid of that label. No one see Sweden as a waring nation but it have taken 200 years of peace and a lot of diplomatic efforts to get to that point. It just did not happen overnight.
Click to expand...

I don't know how much the people of today actually care about events that happened in a remote past, but France certainly doesn't refuse to sell its goods to Germany at the same price of the rest of the world because they were invaded some decades ago, and have in fact signed a "treaty of friendship" together and even a "defensive pact". Same goes for Germany after it was raped by the allies when they lost the war.

If we want to talk about realism then the truth is that economic and political interests always pass through any kind of past reputation of warmongering that a nation have (it is another case if there are ongoing tensions but not past ones).

The problem with the warmonger reputation in Civ is that it has a very huge impact on economic and political relationships, way more than in any other 4x that I know of and more than what happens in the real world.

I had a game where I made an early conquest (classical era) of a CS which had a strategic importance to me. That was the only war that I ever initiated, the only city I ever conquered. 2 thousand years after, every CIV that had known me a the time was still angry at me. I could never make a deal with them for the whole game.
 
I've found that, as long as everyone hates your enemy; you can generally get away with warmongering.

For instance, I played a game on a huge map. Both Assyria and Montezuma were my neighbors.

Assyria and Montezuma are bullying Russia. Everybody hates them.

So I step in and attack Assyria. Then I took a few cities, liberated a city state and finally captured Moscow; which was captured previously by Assyria. Meanwhile, the whole world was on my side. Then I pretty much steamrolled Montezuma to just a few cities. I took his capital as well.

Up until this point; the whole world is on my side.

It wasn't until I backstabbed and eliminated Russia that I got any hate. And by that point; I was unstoppable. So I didn't really care.

Point is you should be able to get away with warmongering; if everybody hates your enemy.
 
Or friend. The world can not like you much, but they hate your friend worse. I snuggled up to Mongolia that way. Someone proposed Embargo Mongolia resolution, which I voted against with a whopping 1 delegate. Darn, the embargo passed. Oh look, all these civs in Guarded state are sending me Cargo ships.
 
Civ is in Guarded State.
Sends you Cargo Ship.

This will be good.
 
I noticed in my latest game that even though a civ had switchd ideologies to match mine, they were still in a guarded state, even though their positive modifiers were much higher than the negatives. Why is that?
 
Question said:
I noticed in my latest game that even though a civ had switchd ideologies to match mine, they were still in a guarded state, even though their positive modifiers were much higher than the negatives. Why is that?
Click to expand...

It can take a few turns.
 
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