SGOTM 15 - Xteam

Cactus Pete said:
One issue that might merit more discussion: whether to continue to tech IW. Understand the utility of CoL, but not sure it would be that useful immediately while we are still prioritizing units. Like to hear opinions on how useful Alpha would be, as it's unlikely we could get both IW and Alpha for peace, and how useful would earlier crossbows and swords be. Also, best strategy is dependent on how much more fighting we want to do after peace with Toku. Like to see more of the map, but inclined towards more warring, as we have an abundance of units (and their maintenance cost) with the prospect of better ones to come, at which point we should at least consider opening a second front to the west. Opinions?
Click to expand...
Do not think we have the population or happiness to support Code of Laws and caste yet. Kyoto will require some turns to be ready to serve as a GP farm.

If you use the global view and select culture, you will see that Elizagawa is north of Varanasi. Not sure whether the best route to her is through Toku and Hattie or around by Hammi? Thinking we will need to call on her.

Perhaps the best time to open a second front is with XBows and, if possible (not sure we can delay this long) Trebs. Hattie should be on the other side of Toku and perhaps, with our army there already, Hattie should be our next target?

Thinking we need to see where iron is soon for XBows, would like to see if Kago has any Iron, and get it under our control as it is also needed for Pikes.

Getting a bit nervous at our tech situation. Pointy stick beakers seem to be in our future for a while to come. Alpha would be nice for Spies and turning hammers into beakers if we need that.
 
Let's know a little more about the map before we decide on who to go for next, but I agree, we should keep the war momentum going. :D

I don't think we urgently need IW, so I suggest going at 0% for a while.

A scout as super medic sounds good to me, I usually use a chariot, but a scout sounds even better. It's important that he's never the top defender and I think a 2-move unit is very useful, maybe even more when we go into new land blindly. :crazyeye:
 
zamint3 said:
I don't think we urgently need IW, so I suggest going at 0% for a while.
Click to expand...
Agree that we can do without IW for a while, but it would certainly be helpful or at least informative, so would ask: What are we putting off the decision to learn or to have happen? Also, if we do put off the decision, probably should research Machinery, not IW in the interim.
 
Played two more turns. A couple of interesting things happened.
Toku converted to Judaism and he also completed research of HBR.


Darn rivers are everywhere. Thinking our troops movements should follow the arrows to avoid penalties for attacking across rivers? Or should we use the riverline as a defense bonus for our troops and then move to the forested tile east of the city?

Log:
Reload game.
Turn 116 – 25 AD
Assign Corn to Osaka.
Change research to Machinery at 10%, due in two turns.
Change build in Delhi to a Scout.
Move Great General to Delhi.
IBT
Delhi Scout => Cat.
Bombay Cat => Axe.
Varanasi Worker => Cat.
Toku converts to Judaism. That is interesting.

Turn 177 – 50 AD
Create Scout Super Medic.
Move units east.

IBT
We discover Machinery and start CoL’s at 0%.
Bombay Axe => Cat.
A Great Prophet and Great Merchant were born far away.
Toku will trade HBR.

Turn 188 – 75 AD
Move troops onto copper hill, advance more from Kyoto.

Stop, Save and consult
 

Attachments

  • Gandhi_T118_ AD-0075_in-progress.CivBeyondSwordSave
    230.5 KB · Views: 34
  • SG15_75AD_Toku_Territory.jpg
    SG15_75AD_Toku_Territory.jpg
    352.8 KB · Views: 128
"Thinking our troops movements should follow the arrows to avoid penalties for attacking across rivers? Or should we use the riverline as a defense bonus for our troops and then move to the forested tile east of the city?" We will be vulnerable if we proceed along any route that begins by going 1N onto the forest tile. If there is no road on the grass tile south of the city, then we could proceed 1NE onto the cottage, then 1NE again onto the farm, and finally back 1NW onto the forest adjacent to the city. In any event, at the beginning of the next turn, suggest we move an axe east onto the plains hill. This will allow us to determine if the grass tile is roaded [and, I think, force the two Japanese workers into choosing between completing their chop (which we don't want, as we will want to use it for or own purposes) or becoming vulnerable to capture the next turn]. If the grass tile south of the city is roaded, then the safe route would be one turn slower: 1E, 1NE, 1N, and 1NW. It might be worth moving another axe immediately 1N onto the forest next turn to find out if the city is on a hill and, if so, what is defending it. If lightly defended, then units can advance more directly.

We need to decide whether we want Alpha or IW for peace.
 
It will be easy to cover both option from the Copper Hill because there is a stack of units there, iirc, 4 Axes and 2 Cats.
 
Not much I can add without looking at the game. Been thinking about spamming Buddhism to our cities to block AP votes. One risk is if we face any "stop the war against xxx". Spamming buddhism means we will drive our core cities to unhappiness if we lose a stop war vote. In this case, better if they are not Buddhist. Might be better to wait until the non-Buddhist AI's get infected before we spam.
 
The-Hawk said:
Not much I can add without looking at the game. Been thinking about spamming Buddhism to our cities to block AP votes. One risk is if we face any "stop the war against xxx". Spamming buddhism means we will drive our core cities to unhappiness if we lose a stop war vote. In this case, better if they are not Buddhist. Might be better to wait until the non-Buddhist AI's get infected before we spam.
Click to expand...

Do you mean if we defy? then yes we will get unhappy, but the whole purpose of blocking vote is to say no and cancel the vote. Waiting until all Ai are Budhist will be to little too late.
 
It is three more turns before Kyoto comes out of resistance, so no Missionaries until then at best.

Thinking about playing until we have the next city? :mischief:

Have set research to CoL's at 0%, do we need Sailing first? Or are we expecting that in the peace deal? :)
 
Don't see an immediate need for Sailing, so perhaps we should wait and see if it works out to get it for peace.

If we want Alpha, then we might want to put a bit of research into it.

"It is three more turns before Kyoto comes out of resistance, so no Missionaries until then at best." Don't we want, at least ideally, for Kyoto to be Hindu when it comes out of resistance so as to gain 25% in building the forge (not to mention buildings in Osaka)?
 
I’ve been looking at the Victory screen again regarding AP: ;)

483 votes total
362 required for religious vic (75%), 121 required to block religious vic
299 required for resolutions (62%)

We have a pop of 44=44 votes if all our cities have Buddhism

There's 334 votes accounted for
There's 149 not accounted for= the total of the two AI’s who’s numbers are not shown on the vic screen but ranked #2 and #3

The larger one of those two, and therefore the other candidate for religious vic, will have at least 76 votes and with our 44 votes that’s 120 votes, almost enough to block the religious vic. :)

Making sure the other resolutions are blocked we need a lot more votes!! So the “Stop war against X” resolution could hurt us later when we take on the larger civs that are full members.

For now I suggest not to spread Buddhism, defiance only hurts the cities with Buddhism.

Maybe from this you can deduct that I’m (still) convinced the other AI, except Toku, are all Buddhists. :p
 
Cactus Pete said:
"It is three more turns before Kyoto comes out of resistance, so no Missionaries until then at best." Don't we want, at least ideally, for Kyoto to be Hindu when it comes out of resistance so as to gain 25% in building the forge (not to mention buildings in Osaka)?
Click to expand...
This is a good point and a good reason to change to OR for the next 5 turns?

zamint3 said:
The larger one of those two, and therefore the other candidate for religious vic, will have at least 76 votes and with our 44 votes that’s 120 votes, almost enough to block the religious vic. :)

Making sure the other resolutions are blocked we need a lot more votes!! So the “Stop war against X” resolution could hurt us later when we take on the larger civs that are full members.

For now I suggest not to spread Buddhism, defiance only hurts the cities with Buddhism.

Maybe from this you can deduct that I’m (still) convinced the other AI, except Toku, are all Buddhists. :p
Click to expand...
I am with you on this. We should soon have another city with some additional pop to count. :mischief:
That should help. :)
 
Didn't get to play this evening.

A couple of points to finish this turn set.
Thinking CP is correct that we should consider changing to OR next turn and building two Hindu Missionaries for Kyoto and Osaka, hopefully a third as well if we can manage to take the next city NE of Kyoto.

Should we put some beakers into Alphabet, keep with CoL's or complete Iron Working?

Plan to move as CP suggests in approaching the next city and also threaten Japanese Workers chopping the forest.

btw, using the Prophet for the Hindu Shrine is +6 gpt with more as we add Hind cities. Given our economy, a minor brain wave, instead of paying maintenance on him.

Anything else? Planning to try to get this completed tomorrow evening. :hammer:
 
Cactus Pete said:
We will be vulnerable if we proceed along any route that begins by going 1N onto the forest tile. If there is no road on the grass tile south of the city,
Click to expand...

From the pattern of the roads in the tile 1NW of the copper hill our units are on, I'd say there is a road in the grass tile 1S of the city.

Cactus Pete said:
In any event, at the beginning of the next turn, suggest we move an axe east onto the plains hill. This will allow us to determine if the grass tile is roaded [and, I think, force the two Japanese workers into choosing between completing their chop (which we don't want, as we will want to use it for or own purposes) or becoming vulnerable to capture the next turn]. If the grass tile south of the city is roaded, then the safe route would be one turn slower: 1E, 1NE, 1N, and 1NW. It might be worth moving another axe immediately 1N onto the forest next turn to find out if the city is on a hill and, if so, what is defending it. If lightly defended, then units can advance more directly.
Click to expand...

This all makes good sense.
 
We can’t really afford researching IW right now, not until we take the next city, I suggest 0% into Alpha.

There’s an axe in Kyoto that should be promoted this turn. :)

GPro for Shrine, yes :thumbsup:

I suggest OR next turn after Delhi finishes Cat and then let Delhi and Bombay (after cat) build the missionaries. I would build forge in Vij and Pat, they both have a forest to be chopped and workers nearby to do the job.

The alternatives after Toku are Hatze with Crossbows and War Chariots or Hammu with Bowmen. :mischief:

Are you sure culture is not the fastest? :confused:
 
zamint3 said:
We can’t really afford researching IW right now, not until we take the next city, I suggest 0% into Alpha.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I think this probably about right. We can always run a turn at 100% before peace to see if he'll give us both Alpha and IW? :please:

zamint3 said:
There’s an axe in Kyoto that should be promoted this turn. :)
Click to expand...
Nice catch. :)

zamint3 said:
GPro for Shrine, yes :thumbsup:
Click to expand...
Would like to hear more from others on this.

zamint3 said:
I suggest OR next turn after Delhi finishes Cat and then let Delhi and Bombay (after cat) build the missionaries. I would build forge in Vij and Pat, they both have a forest to be chopped and workers nearby to do the job.
Click to expand...
OK. Don't want to be caught short of Cats.

zamint3 said:
The alternatives after Toku are Hatze with Crossbows and War Chariots or Hammu with Bowmen. :mischief:
Click to expand...
Not very promising, :huh:

zamint3 said:
Are you sure culture is not the fastest? :confused:
Click to expand...
:lol: Not so sure myself...
 
GPro
Shrine: 1gpt per city. GPro GPP's.
Bulb: 1000 bpt plus 2 per population point.
Settled: 2h 5g and 3 bpt under Rep.

I am not a fan of shrine since it love to generate GPros. And if anyone want to go after a culture game I recommend we avoid it. Otherwise I do not have a care how or what we do with the GPro.
 
Regarding the use of the GProphet: We have a population of 44 now, and it's growing. Every one of those citizens, save the one on the Osaka corn, will get at least one bonus from a GA. So GA is worth over 50 gold/hammers per turn now, or >500. It will take a great many turns to get that much out of a shrine or settling (though the benefit will begin to be of use now). Further, we will grow faster and the potential benefit of a GA increase if we continue to war, which still seems the best route to victory. So, thinking we should save GPro for a possible GA or even Theo (depending on the map), and revisit once that number of gold/hammers gets around 1000. Also, it is an insurance policy, should our economy threaten to run a deficit as a function of military actions/decisions.

Fine with delaying OR until we are set to use it.

Fine with Alpha at 0% for a short while, but, if we are going to take on another AI after Toku (and that is what looks best at this point -- nice to leave a second Civ without Buddhism), then the sooner we get IW (and Archery), the sooner we can make that a realistic enterprise, and the addition of trebs plus added movement will certainly help as well.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Nizef
TSG 241 Announcement
Replies
9
Views
774
sebtanic
S
AlanH
[BTS] SGOTM 26 - Phoenix Rising
86 87 88
Replies
2K
Views
116K
Fippy
Fippy
AlanH
[BTS] SGOTM 26 - Unusual Suspects
32 33 34
Replies
672
Views
47K
Tonny
Tonny
AlanH
[BTS] SGOTM 26 - The Indecisive
32 33 34
Replies
664
Views
50K
Cactus Pete
C
AlanH
[BTS] SGOTM 26 - Home Slices
311 312 313
Replies
6K
Views
223K
Tonny
Tonny
Top Bottom