AI inflation lower than human player's inflation?

E

erebos

Chieftain
Joined
Jul 26, 2007
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Germany
When loading a savegame with the "chipotle" cheat and going into debug-mode to see the AI's income i recognized that the inflation (2022/noble/epic) was 148% for the AI (all of them) and 210% for me ... i thought noble was balanced. Either this is a bug or on purpose, I find this a huge advantage to the AI. Especially as i tried to nerf them economically through my corporations ...

Does anyone know what the advantages of the AI are on noble?

Erebos
 
Just looked in "...\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Assets\XML\GameInfo\CIV4HandicapInfo" to see all the difficulty settings. AI inflation percentage is set at 80% for most levels. This isn't that big of advantage as you think since the player is a lot better (and dangerous) with money than the AI.
 
yeah, but they said they made it so damn smart that it does not need to cheat (on noble). also that means that my tactics of bankruptcy through corporations won't work on the AI because they will benefit more than loose. :(

But i think the new Solver's patch is a step in the right direction ...

erebos
 
Smidlee said:
Just looked in "...\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Assets\XML\GameInfo\CIV4HandicapInfo" to see all the difficulty settings. AI inflation percentage is set at 80% for most levels.
Click to expand...
Is that for Noble as well?
I thought Noble was a 100% fair play with no handicaps neither for player and AI.
 
Borya said:
Is that for Noble as well?
I thought Noble was a 100% fair play with no handicaps neither for player and AI.
Click to expand...
Where did you get that idea? You are far from the only one to think that, but I can't understand where you all get the idea that noble is completly fair. It never has been and I have never seen anyone say it is, just that it's the MOST fair. The AI get bonuses on all difficulty levels, even settler. Below noble your bonuses are significant enough that you're at an advantage, above noble the AIs bonuses are even larger making them at an advantage (which they are at noble too, but less so).
 
Borya said:
Is that for Noble as well?
I thought Noble was a 100% fair play with no handicaps neither for player and AI.
Click to expand...

If it was Noble level woudl be like settler level. Honestly I give blake props for the AI, but the AI cannot compete with a decently compent human, unless it gets some adavantages.
 
snarko said:
Where did you get that idea? You are far from the only one to think that, but I can't understand where you all get the idea that noble is completly fair.
Click to expand...
Probably because the game says so when you hover over the difficulty level in the "Play Now" menu. Before I knew about the handicap file I also thought that everything was completely even on that level.
 
AriochIV said:
You wouldn't expect an AI player to be able to compete with a human player without cheating, would you?
Click to expand...

Yes,have you ever played chess vs AI ? I can assure it doesn't cheat but it is a champion at higher levels.

So,you have seen that it's possible,it only depends on programmers.....please don't tell me that I can't comapre chess and Civ IV because the concept is the same,Civ IV has only much more variables...if <-> then
 
The rules of chess haven't changed for 500 years, countless programmers worldwide have had decades to develop and refine perfect chess AI. And they have just recently managed to make chess programs that can compete with the best human players.

Civ4 is around for two years and Firaxis is only one company. It may be possible to create a nearly perfect AI for the game, but it would take dozens of people and several years time. Hardly worth it, at least from a commercial perspective ;)
 
gunter said:
Yes,have you ever played chess vs AI ? I can assure it doesn't cheat but it is a champion at higher levels.

So,you have seen that it's possible,it only depends on programmers.....please don't tell me that I can't comapre chess and Civ IV because the concept is the same,Civ IV has only much more variables...if <-> then
Click to expand...
Hardware is also something that need to be considered. Sometimes making the AI do something a little more stupid and giving it a small bonus to compensate can be a better idea than making the turns take longer. I don't know about you but I wouldn't want to wait several minutes for the AI to make their moves.
 
as for me, my question was answered. thx. didn't know about that bonus for the AI yet ... with corporations affected by inflation that 20% bonus was huge but now there is this patch from Solver and the prediction that this change will make it's way to the official patch - inflation does not longer affect corporations. that's seems fine to me.

erebos
 
erebos said:
as for me, my question was answered. thx. didn't know about that bonus for the AI yet ... with corporations affected by inflation that 20% bonus was huge but now there is this patch from Solver and the prediction that this change will make it's way to the official patch - inflation does not longer affect corporations. that's seems fine to me.

erebos
Click to expand...

I'd wage dollars to donuts solver's "mod" is the base of the fireaxis patch that hasn't made it through QC yet. Everyone should download it if they know how.
 
IMO the worst aspect of the AI it ain't the fact it cheats in terms of shame and absurd difference vs human,the worst thing is that it doesn't adapt itself to the way of playing of others AIs and also of course to human behaviours.

Told like that it sounds quite complicate, in the truth some basic variables could be " instructed " to react in different ways depending on other variables that may surface during the game.

The model I described is not of course an AI,it is simply the same flat " if <-> then " relationship but it does consider more variables and it changes dynamically also depending on human actions.

It is like a GPS when you input to find an alternative road cause work in progress queues,very simple and already in production and it works like a charm
 
phungus420 said:
I'd wage dollars to donuts solver's "mod" is the base of the fireaxis patch that hasn't made it through QC yet. Everyone should download it if they know how.
Click to expand...

as i am german and do not know this saying i assume that means "you are pretty sure that you will win" which means you're confident that that will happen, right? :p
 
IMO the worst aspect of the AI it ain't the fact it cheats in terms of shame and absurd difference vs human,the worst thing is that it doesn't adapt itself to the way of playing of others AIs and also of course to human behaviours.

Told like that it sounds quite complicate, in the truth some basic variables could be " instructed " to react in different ways depending on other variables that may surface during the game.
Click to expand...


So you want a learning, self-educating system. A moderate demand, no doubt :lol:

Show me a video game that has such an AI...
 
IronCrown said:
So you want a learning, self-educating system. A moderate demand, no doubt :lol:

Show me a video game that has such an AI...
Click to expand...

Yep, you are right :) but that was the same sentence I heard before LCD were invented , before color monitors took place of 12" green phosphors ones or before the introduction of mobile phones....etc

It is not fantascience,it is suffient to think about the differencies and implementations between Civ I and Civ IV . Both are marvellous , the first one was a masterpiece but the last ones can take care about religions,unit promotions etc..
 
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