The Deity Challenge Line-up #22 - Brazil, King of the Jungle

Just finished a DomV. Is it okay to continue that game to get a Cultural win? I don't have one yet (because I'm terrible at them, apparently). After Machinery and left-side Honour, I did start choosing techs and policies with cultural victory in mind.

I'll write up the DomV later. This was a good map to experiment and work my lib-dom strategy on.
 
This was a good map to work on my Liberty-Domination strategy and try to narrow down recommended turn #s. I've included a fair bit of notes in the spoiler, for those that want to work their way through.

Spoiler :

Plan: 3-City Liberty-Domination. With low production start, 4-City (which I also tried) made it difficult to start warring with Composites quickly enough. 3 cities also allows the capital to grow 1-2 pop more before the National College and you can get 2-3 more archers out
Religion: Sacred Path pantheon
Capital: Scout, (buy Scout), Monument, Settler

-Beijing is on a hill, well protected; do NOT attack China first, wait for XBows (I really struggled when trying to take Beijing first)
-Mt. Kilimanjaro is quickly becoming my favourite wonder; being able to capture some cities with scouts, on top of the obvious scout-archer/comp/XB movement, is just so helpful. I was actually going to try a peaceful/cultural game, but when I saw that wonder I quickly changed my mind

Time Period: Focus – Actual Turn # (if relevant)
T0-25 explore, ruins, steal workers, pillage tiles for gold if possible; *buy 2nd scout ASAP (140)
T25-30 Animal Husbandry researched – yes
T30-35 first expo founded – bit earlier
T35-40 establish trade route – T42 to Shoshone Agaidika (already receiving from China)
T40-45 second expo founded – ~T37
T40-45 Sailing (build 2nd TR) – I didn’t bother teching Sailing, as China sent me early TR
*Shoshone capital built Pyramids. I usually note who built Pyramids, Statue of Zeus, and Great Wall; sometimes it affects the order in which I attack opponents, other times (i.e. with Great Wall) I just make sure that army is better prepared
T65-70 Philosophy (if not building Oracle, don’t need it until almost done Liberty) – T56
T65-70 finish Liberty (pay Cultural CS if necessary) – T58 (allied CS, barb camp & worker): GE
T59 paid China to DOW Poca (soften them both up for later)
T66-71 3-city National College; (want 6+ pop in Capital; 40+ science) – T59, 6pop in cap, 37 science (6 TR)
(delayed Construction a few turns to get a few more archers finished, as I had the gold to upgrade more than I’d produced)
*Austria has Great Wall, likely in capital
T60-65 Construction: want 6+ archers, 480+ gold, 2+ melee – T64 have 8 archers, 678 gold, 1 warrior, 1 scout with extra sight (available for city capture) and a 2nd scout exploring out East
T60-65 pay first target to DOW at least 1 civ – T65 paid Greece to DOW Arabia
T65-68 start first war, want capital by T85 – T66 or 67 DOW Greece
T69 capture Corinth (no buildings!)
T75 opened Honour
T77 first capital captured – Athens (no wonders)
T81 my scout found a ruin in the far East and upgraded to Archer – awesome!
T80-95 form 2nd army - T82 moving a few Comps back towards my capital to start forming 2nd army
T84 paid Arabia to DOW Portugal. Paid China (still at war with Poca) to DOW Austria and the Inca
T84 captured Sparta, Greece is gone
(probably started paying for some DOWs too early, as I’m waiting for Machinery for several turns)
*moved former caravan to China over to Sparta (Merc CS wanted it, going to ally)
T88-96 Machinery, then get Horseback Riding, Civil Service, then decide between Education or (if game is going very fast) skip Edu and go to Chivalry – T91 Machinery
At Machinery, want 10+ composites, 1000+ gold, 4+ melee (inc. scouts if Mt Kil). This game:
-Northern army: 7 comps, 1 spear, 1 scout, will have GG from Honour in 2 turns
-South/Eastern army: 6 comps, 1 warrior, 1 scout, 1 GG; will send Horseman soon
-have 1490 gold, enough to upgrade all 13 Comps. Oh, and 1 scout-archer out East
T91 paid Arabia to DOW Poca
T92 DOW Arabia with South/Eastern army & DOW China with Northern army. Want both capitals by T100-110
T94 finished Statue of Zeus & Horseback Riding. Note that I built up my army first, then built Zeus later (in strong production city by salt) as no one else had built it. You're better off building units and capturing Zeus, or getting your armies out and building it later to help when you start running into stronger cities
T96 capture Medina & Beijing (2nd capital); no Wonders in either
T104 capture Shanghai Peace: 38gpt
T109 capture 3rd capital: Mecca (Stonehenge). Peace: even
T110 Military Tradition
T111 paid Inca to DOW Portugese and, 2 turns later, Arabia & Shoshone
T113 DOW the Inca
T114 capture 4th capital: Moson Kahni (Hanging Gardens, Mausoleum, Pyramids). Peace: even, trading some luxuries for gold
T117 first Logistics XB
*paid Austria to DOW Portugal, Arabia, Shoshone, and the Inca (already at war with China)
T118 DOW Austria. China paid me 3gpt to do so
*Austria, with mountains and Great Wall, causing some problems. Inca battle going slowly as well
T125 opened Aesthetics
T129 finally captured Tiwanaku (Inca), which is adjacent to Cusco; captured with scout, they killed my knight
T130 Inca re-captured Tiwanaku. I got it back T132
T133 captured Salzburg, adjacent Vienna. Made peace next turn, getting 20gpt; will set up citadels around Vienna (Great Wall)
T135 Medina (mine) captured by Kathmandu. That’s okay, as long as they burn it (they didn't burn it)
T136 capture 5th capital: Cusco (Terracotta; University). Peace next turn, given a city, burned it
T139 paid Austria to DOW China
*Vienna built Himeji Castle
T141 Acoustics
*paid China (5 horses) to DOW Shoshone. Was worried they’re going to attack me while I’m busy
T145 DOW Austria again. Capture Klagenfurt in 1 turn
T149 DOW Portugal
T150 captured 6th capital: Vienna (Alhambra, Wat, Itza, Great Wall, Himeji Machu, Notre Dame, Oracle, Petra, ToA)
T154 captured Porto, adjacent Lisbon
T156 captured 7th capital: Lisbon

***want to capture capitals by around T85, 100, 115, 130, 145, 160, & finish by 180
***Actual: 77, 96, 109, 114, 136, 150, 156

I think sub-T180 should be okay for XBows, assuming you have several with logistics + range, and knights, assuming you can build/buy enough to start sending in suicide-knights for the final 1-2 capitals


Spoiler :




 
If you can count that as a Cultural victory, that'll complete one of each for me and get the CV over with. Not too interesting, but notes and pics in the spoiler:

Spoiler :

Continuing from T156 towards a Warmongering-Cultural Victory
T168 wiped out Portugal; they had the highest culture of remaining opponents
*Forbidden Palace built in Machu. I would like to have that wonder. They denounced me next turn, that settles it…
*China wiped out Austria; 5 civs left. The Inca has the most culture of opponents
T180 finished Aesthetics
T181 capture Machu (Forbidden Palace, Great Mosque of Djenne)
*paid China to DOW Shoshone
T192 captured last Incan city. I’ve been in Carnival for quite a while; Familiar (34-46%) with 3 remaining civs. Allied with 13/16 CS; the other 3 are Maritime
*Globe Theatre built in Guangzhou (I never captured it, as I only used the Xbows and knights for further war and didn't bother building any more)
T196 paid Arabia to DOW Shoshone
T197 paid China to DOW Arabia
T198 Secularism; science at 440
T199 DOW Arabia
T200 Archeology
T203 captured last Arabian city; Familiar (43-47%) with 2 remaining civs
*started popping Great Musicians from Faith around here; had a lot saved up and got 3 this way and 2 from the guild, using 3 on China and 2 on Shoshone
T205 China denounced me, so I should attack them
T209 Allied 16/16 CS. DOW China
T222 DOW Shoshone. Popular 74-89% with both civs
T225 over 90% on both; about to use 5th Great Musician
T232 Influential with both remaining civs



 
T234 CV

Peaceful CV except for worker steal, defensive wars and end game DoW to force open border for GM. Brazil is exceptional that I only managed to get Museums, Hermitage, Oxford, Sistine Chapel for theming bonuses. No other great works wonders. Still managed with not bad win time. Culture was so high that I should've used it to get another golden age through liberty than to spend it on useless SP in freedom.

Spoiler :

Settled Rio in the north near the salts, and first expo near Wu. DoW her to get a total of 6 workers with my warrior, the most I've ever got from a single AI. There was a salt tile that was easily exploitable. 2 more cities in the south near jungles and one on Mt Kili.

Stayed at war with Wu until Pocatello DoW, then drove him back with my CB army. Got a GG from the war and saved for later for citadel bombing. 4 city NC after construction detour. Stayed peace with both with some bribing here and there, and even DoF with Pocatello, but Wu refused. Alex was different story, he never liked me, no open border and even turned hostile because of friends with enemy modifier.

Constructed Sistine Chapel to mainly deny AI from building it. Taj Mahal to trigger Golden Age since I wanted to save the artists for great works early on. Later built Eiffel Tower and Statue of Liberty. Also built Porcelain Tower for the free GS.

Full tradition, full rationalism, full aesthetic, Freedom x9. A lot of culture this game from the landmarks and UI, ended with over 720 cpt at the end.
Brasilia in particular has 11 Brazilwood camps, 2 landmarks for a total of 105 cpt, and 156 tpt. In total, managed 823 tpt.

WC: won WF, passed +culture to landmarks, +culture to GP tiles. Won IG. Every AI was busy warring with the really annoying Alex to get a lot of things done. Except Maria was wonder spamming while in a war.

During the final carnival on top of IG from turn 227, Brazil was at its best and only needed till 234 to win CV. First influential was achieved at 225 and leader has more than 2.5 times their culture.

I forgot to build the GM guild, so only got 1 natural GM out. I have very poor faith and only bought 1 GM and 1 GA for the carnival.
Sold a new city to Maria of Portugal to bomb her, and the other GM went accompanied by Foreign Legion upgraded Pracinha into Alex's land, since he never gave me open borders. Pracinha is a useless unit that comes too late for any help with GA points.
 

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I figured I would try this map since the GOTM is Brazil and this would be a good warm up. One can only hope that I have close neighbors in the GOTM as this game.

I went with Full Liberty and now over to Commerce with Wagon Trains.

I feel like I can pretty much win however I want at this point. If I do finish the game I am not sure I would want to just keep up the Warmonger or bunker down and win some other way.

I took down Athens first and kinda wanted Sparta but decided to take Corinth in a trade deal and sold it to Arabia. Later I broke the deal and attacked him as well and took Damascus. The Inca took Arabia's Capital so Medina wasn't an option.

Next target was China even though she had the GW it wasn't very hard since Shoshone was more than willing to help the cause after they had an earlier war. I took down Nan and Beijing and opted for peace even though I could have taken one more city perhaps. I just felt like taking a break. Perhaps I should of just saved the game before taking peace and thought about it.

Either way I think the game is over. Most likely finish it since I seem to be addicted to this stupid game!

Athens has the Hanging Gardens so it is growing faster than my Capital and China had the GW and Itza which is nice.
 

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Nice. Go and kill everyone, because I don't think we have enough Domination wins on that map :lol:
 
Domination victory T235 after a failed attempt to quickish culture victory. I also saw that the GOTM was brazil and decided to try this one first - though Im not sure i will play it since i couldnt get the strategy to work.

Spoiler :

Second playthrough of the map - first time was a peaceful CV on T265 which I wasnt happy with months ago when i played it.

Decided that I would try liberty and try and work conquest into a CV.

Settled cities in the same four positions with capital in salt (seriously its a coin flip if you walk north or south to get out of jungle latitude position)

4 city liberty with worker steals from china. Got complacent (forgot pathfinder is warrior for Shoshone), Shoshone declares earlish war and I have to rush-buy walls to fend it off. White peace;paid him to go and disturb China instead.

Machinary T 92 (for a T5 settle and early war this is ridiculous), ~10 Mount Kili CB upgraded, Beijing falls T98 (Chichen Itza) March down to Greece (tech leader and doing his stupid ALLY ALL CS thing...) Cornith, Athens (GL), Sparta all fall before I re-call Arabia (he lost Medina to Greece, Mecca to Inca, Killed by CS..) to life to lift the warmonger hate. Inca is next, Mecca (~T120) is mine (stonehenge and petra), liberate damacus from CS (it had the pathenon but no art work...)

With 3 capitals under my control the vague plan was for futurism CV with hotels and IG to supplement. 3 fact for ideo, but coal was in a bit hard to find (9 cities, 4 capitals and still i have to buy tiles???). First WC proposal was +3 to wonders, but (1) Inca and austria have spammed more wonders in the 30 turns, and (2) FP is one of them so I am booted out of WC.

Quite clear that futurism isnt going to work (more GAWM during golden age isnt game ending when its T160), Arty is the next logical choice. ~T170, declared Shoshone (4 wonders in capital + they wiped China). Pocatello is reduced to a artic city and a china is revived. Austria declared T190, wiped off the map T207 (16k culture, dont want to bother). Inca has 20k culture by now so its clear that the only way for CV is to completely wipe them out. Declared T208, Cusco T228 falls with all its many wonders. But now Portugal has 15k culture and despite getting back into WC I realised that IG required Radio (which i dont have...)

Just declare Portugal T 230 to get it over with and with some bomber support Lisbon falls T 235.

Strategy was an utter failure this game and at the tactical level I never managed to build Oxford nor the Ironworks so i guess this map easily doable far quicker than I got around to.

Of note i tried really hard to get an AI to wipe Alex for me after reducing him to 1 city around T115 since he still had CS allies and somehow had the $ to try and steal my CS allies. It wasnt til around T 190 that he finally dissapeared off the map (killed by a CS, oh the irony) since neither Austria nor the Inca had the brains to move an army around terrian obstacles to his last refuge.

Social Policies : Full Lib, comm opener, Aest (faster buildings), Rat (Secul), Autocracy 8. The plan was to buy hotels for IG and futurism CV so thats why policies are all over the place.

Wonders : Big Ben (was careless and generated a GE by mistake. Didnt have any use for him)

WC: +3 to wonders, arts funding was passed as well, nothing else relevant

Rel:Mother Earth, Pagodas, Tithe. Completely useless since faith generation was terrible and only managed 2 pagodas.
 

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I've yet to be able to incorporate conquest into CV on deity level where it would reduce the win time. Futurism is a joke on deity when AI cpt is more than 250. It may work on continents which is what the GOTM is on, but even in practice games, it was always slower than peaceful start for me.
 
I think youre right, continents conquest fast culture might be better. Am not sure if if XB is the way to go - on one hand you can wipe the continent before being discovered, but on the other hand it seems to be difficult to tech thru to arch/radio fast enough + other continent will prolly get sistine/pisa/uffizi. Maybe babylon/lucky assyria? oh well onto next DCL.
 
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