Yeah and you had an 8 turn lead on me which means you got the Atomic Era World Council thing triggered earlier. So Science for all civs must have been further ahead in your game.
The Deity Challenge Line-up #35 - Siam OCC
- Thread starter consentient
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Yeah and you had an 8 turn lead on me which means you got the Atomic Era World Council thing triggered earlier. So Science for all civs must have been further ahead in your game.
Acken
Deity
It may be something the devs just didn't really thought off. Now that I'm editing the DLL I can see a ton of oversight (and sloppy programming like Tourism being treated differently than other yields for no practical reason) so it's just one of those.
My guess is when a city flip the program just call the normal "Acquire city" method and in it the check "if OCC" always return "Delete city".
cazaderonus
Actual Dad.
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I triggered it myself bublbing to information era. Aside from alex, all civs were in the usual AIs science times. And i waited a bit to trigger a bit fearing not having enough gold to get the tie break. Could have finished 10/15 turns earlier easily if i had planned to do the ugly ass strategy to get gold from one friend with my gpt, then dow him and sell to the other friend.
I guess I have a different take on this. First, saying insta-raze was not by purposeful design seems silly to me -- it was clearly purposeful, since it had to be specifically coded. Might it be a suboptimal design decision? Well, that takes me to point two.
Seems to me that the idea behind OCC is not just that you can't found or control additional cities, but that you shouldn't be able to derive any benefit from additional cities. If a captured city had to be razed on the typical razing schedule, you would have the opportunity to loot that city of its great works and sell off (for lump sum gold) any buildings with maintenance costs. If that city had any wonders, you would derive the benefits of those wonders until the razing process was completed. You could do lump sum sales (to your DOF buddies) of any luxuries or strategics in the city being razed (the trades would bust when the razing process ended, but you wouldn't have to return any of the lump-sum gold). You could accelerate the healing of your units in the culture borders of the city being razed (as friendly territory) and do long-deferred unit upgrades (otherwise you would have to march those units back to your capital for upgrades). You could base planes in that city to provide a base for attacks on the next city (while making sure to relocate those planes back to your capital before the razing was completed). You could then sell the city for gold, resources, etc. to an AI one turn before the razing process was completed. Yes, you would have to bear the happiness hit of the city during the razing process, but that would be a price we all would be delighted to pay.
Same considerations make a liberation option untenable IMO. Liberation may provide less substantial benefits, but the diplomatic boost with the liberated civ (particularly one that is revived from death, with assured World Leader votes) has real value, value that I would argue you should not be able to obtain when playing OCC.
As for whether OCC insta-razing makes warmongering more or less difficult, I think it is a push. On the one hand, no happiness hit and no fear of the AI retaking the city. On the other hand, you can only upgrade units in your capital, so you either sweep the map with the units you have or take valuable time to trudge back to your capital to upgrade to next-generation units. Also, you can't make as efficient use of planes, since they can only be based in your capital. Finally, unless your capital is coastal, naval warfare is not available -- makes warmongering on a Continents map that much more difficult.
stormtrooper412
Peacemongering Turtlesaur
I burned a total of three Engis on Redentor, Eiffel Tower and Broadway. Then added Big Ben, and CN. Towards the end I started spamming Infantry but I could have added Neush and maybe something else. Prora was obviously out of the question even though I teched in time because I wasn't coastal, derp.
consentient
Domination!
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I think that the window for domination on OCC is pretty small. Doable, but difficult. You have only one city to make units in, after all
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cazaderonus
Actual Dad.
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And you re capped on how much units you can build with that one city before getting massive production penalties. Yeah a domination occ must be a nightmare. It s pretty much like it s made to NOT be a conquest type of play.
cazaderonus
Actual Dad.
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I have to admit, this was one of the easier games I played, because all foreign interactions went in my favour. But let's do a full writeup, because I have been kind of laconic lately:
Spoiler :
Damn, you had to tie me with a t282 win didnt you
And ooooh, do i envy your alex being irrelevant situation lol
Congrats
watabeasty
Chieftain
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This is my first time trying to play the DCL. How do I play the save? Every time I download it the file is a .php and I don't know how to convert it from that to a .Civ5Save.
Should be able to manually change the file extension.
watabeasty
Chieftain
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Thank you.
I see - yeah I took a few detours on the way to the info era. Probably a mistake in hindsight but thats my first Diplo victory on Diety and my first in a long time so I was a bit hazy on the world council timing.
I agree on Reformation it's pretty worthless if you only have 1 city. I really see Piety as a supplementary tree to Liberty. If you can guarantee the Great Mosque it does get a bit better (at least you get +4 culture to help with policies). The Reformations though aren't all that great for 1 city. Glory of God is useless with a mediocre faith generation. Charitable Missions is potentially useful but there are better things to spend your policies on.
cazaderonus
Actual Dad.
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Yeah, charitable mission is the obvious one. I would have loved to have it but it would have required 4 policies to get it. I guess you could grab it late before the final money push on cses as i got maybe 3/4 policies in freedom that werent really usefull in the late turns. But i dont think i would have had the 4 really.
stormtrooper412
Peacemongering Turtlesaur
does Charitable missions work on your religion only or a CS you want to influence needs to share your religion? Seems like a waste of policies since you can easily buy everyone without it.
I seem to remember having enough policies to grab it anyway, I might have ignored Commerce and Patronage finisher and some Autocracy fillers
I seem to remember having enough policies to grab it anyway, I might have ignored Commerce and Patronage finisher and some Autocracy fillers
GenuineRisk
Warlord
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Charitable Missions works on any CS.
Well, diplomacy and AI tactics all had to be specifically coded as well. My question is if OCC-as-implemented is because it is harder (which you make an excellent case for) or because that is what the developers could get out the door quickly? Do I recall correctly that the OCC setting checkbox was added with an expansion or patch? I suppose I should be grateful. People who prefer a more artful implementation can always do so with house rules.
I tried the map again, going Tradition plus Piety. It made my game even slower. Reformation is okay for one city, but the delay to Rationalism or Freedom Trade Routes is not worth the cost. FWIW, I had plenty of faith generation. Also, I somehow I never before figured out before that Papal Primacy is incompatible with fulfilling CS conversion quests, so less synergy with Evangelism than I was expecting. I think World Church is good for OCC, but for the Siam UA, Papal Primacy seems like a no-brainer -- especially since most everyone is picking up Consulates.
That is a great observation about Messiah: the math is such that for most of the game your GPr is essentially +100% conversion strength! The tip about escorting is good too. Why cavalry though when the GPr only has move two?
Did anyone try Interfaith Dialogue plus Holy Order? That seems like a particularly useful combo for OCC.
You could successfully bribe AIs to capture others' capitals, and then conquer the handful remaining (ideally only 1-2).
Based on the screenshots I've seen in this thread, it seems entirely possible. Looks like two civs heavily dominated the rest, in virtually every game.
I would think you'd want to adopt someone else's religion, for the diplo points.
No, BNW Domination requires controlling all original caps. OCC means killing all the caps.
I think the unit cap would be a real limiter. I kept hitting that playing peaceful!
That only helps with one civ. As compared to helping with the CS influence, especially given the UA, Founding is pretty valuable. But I really struggled with science too, so I was thinking ID might be very nice.
That was changed, then? I thought it required you to be the only one controlling an original capital.
It was changed. Civilopedia was not updated, but the in-game Victory Progress screen shows it correctly.
