What progess has been made in Iraq

communism · Aug 2, 2005

Tell me sceptics, what progress, despite your objections has been made in Iraq.

No sarcasm, no stupid jokes about how we've killed more people etc, I would like to hear actual progress you think the Coalition has made despite all the criticism in the country of Iraq.

farting bob · Aug 2, 2005

America has easy access to more middle eastern oil now. Damn, you said no jokes.
Ok, i think it has done well in the initial invasion and removing saddam from power. Its just that every day since America entered baghdad has generally been bad. They didnt take into account as much resistance and even those who didnt like saddam, dont like america ocupying their homeland.

communism · Aug 2, 2005

farting bob said:
America has easy access to more middle eastern oil now. Damn, you said no jokes.
Ok, i think it has done well in the initial invasion and removing saddam from power. Its just that every day since America entered baghdad has generally been bad. They didnt take into account as much resistance and even those who didnt like saddam, dont like america ocupying their homeland.

Ok amendment needed.

Disregard the invasion, I'm talking about the occupation. What successes has it had.

Continue

Godwynn · Aug 2, 2005

A new government is in place, and elections were held.

Jawz II · Aug 2, 2005

i can tell you for a fact theres no more electricity being produced, since the source you provided in that thread clearly said so..

Mark1031 · Aug 2, 2005

Well it is almost impossible to tell as the place is too dangerous for reporters to travel freely and report so we are basically given just military press briefings along with casualty reports. This is however not a good sign that anything good has been done once Saddam was removed.

Jawz II · Aug 2, 2005

here i found the thread:http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=122832&page=2&pp=20

cgannon64 · Aug 2, 2005

The New York Times periodically runs a nice little box in the Op-Ed section showing a bunch of markers for Iraqi progress, from electricity to casualties to total oil produced to Iraqi's optimism.

In short: We're succeeding in some ways and failing in others.

Riesstiu IV · Aug 2, 2005

Iraq seems to have gone backwards. The infrastructure is falling apart. The security forces are unable to provide stability even in the supposed green zone. Unemployment is staggering and violent crime has increased 10 fold. When you look at the hundreds of billions of dollars spent on this occupation, you start to wonder where all of it has gone. This war/occupation is proving to be a complete waste of lives and money.

cgannon64 · Aug 2, 2005

Your pessimism is very biased. The infrastructure isn't "falling apart": Parts of it are and parts of it aren't. Is unemployment really staggering? Since when can we not even control the Green Zone?

CruddyLeper · Aug 2, 2005

H'mm... 80% of Iraqis are now firmly committed to the idea of a democratically elected govt in Iraq.

Probably about the same proportion want the foriengers to get the hell out of Dodge.

The trick is matching one condition happening to the other.

Jawz II · Aug 2, 2005

cgannon64 said:
Your pessimism is very biased. The infrastructure isn't "falling apart": Parts of it are and parts of it aren't. Is unemployment really staggering? Since when can we not even control the Green Zone?

do your sources mention all the parts of the infra structure being destroyed by insurgents too, or only the stuff being built? and would you mind posting them?

in the meanwhile heres an article from yahoo news

quoted from that article:

Electrical shortfalls were common during the Saddam Hussein era and attributed to a poor distribution network, but the situation has worsened due to sabotage and lack of maintenance.
Before the U.S.-led invasion, Baghdad residents had about 20 hours of electricity a day. Today, they get about 10, usually broken into two-hour chunks.

Efforts to expand Baghdad's water projects were set back earlier this month when insurgents sabotaged a pipeline near Baghdad. Now, some complain the water they do get smells bad, and Hasson acknowledged in some areas, the water gets mixed with sewage.

According to City Hall, Baghdad produces about 544 million gallons of water per day, some 370 million gallons short of its required amount. Some 55 percent of the water is lost through leakage in the pipes.

cgannon64 · Aug 2, 2005

Jawz II said:
and would you mind posting them?

It's going to be tough to find but I'll poke around on the NY Times website.

EDIT: Here is the chart from April - the most recent one, I think.

Riesstiu IV · Aug 2, 2005

cgannon64 said:
Your pessimism is very biased.

Your optimism is very biased.

cgannon64 said:
The infrastructure isn't "falling apart": Parts of it are and parts of it aren't.

Entire sections of Baghdad aren't getting electricity and water, something that Saddam Hussein was able to at least nominally supply. Because of the constant attacks by idiot insurgents against repair work and already working power lines, water pumps, etc they make the situation even worse. But because security is so overwhelmed the situation is not getting better.

cgannon64 said:
Is unemployment really staggering?

Because of the near state of anarchy conducting an accurate census is hard. From what Ive read, the unemployment rates range from around 30% - 50%. Even the low end figures are awful.

cgannon64 said:
Since when can we not even control the Green Zone?

Just watch the news. There are constant incursions in the green zone. What distinguishes the green zone from the rest of Baghdad is that there are far fewer attacks. Several neighborhoods in Baghdad are totally lost to security forces. Iraqi police dont even dare to enter areas like Al-Sadr city without support from APCs and armor.

Jawz II · Aug 2, 2005

cgannon64 said:
It's going to be tough to find but I'll poke around on the NY Times website.

EDIT: Here is the chart from April - the most recent one, I think.

i dont have acrobat reader installed, would you mind copy and pasting them here?

cgannon64 · Aug 2, 2005

I don't know of any way of doing that without hand-copying the information, which would be messy and time-consuming.

Gelion · Aug 2, 2005

Jaws this should help you: http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html

Jawz II · Aug 2, 2005

no i know its free, im just too lazy to install it, along with alot of other software like quicktime, ive been thinking the whole windows will crash soon anyhow and ill have to reformat my hard drive anyway (from past experience)

"unfortunately" that has not happened for over a year :ack:

ps.@ cgannon:first youll have to highlight what you want copied, ctrl +a highlights everything

copy: ctrl + c

paste: ctrl + v

cgannon64 · Aug 2, 2005

THE STATE OF IRAQ: AN UPDATE (5/16/04)
Security Indicators
April 2003 | August | December | April
U.S./Other Foreign Troops
150,000/23,000 | 139,000/22,000 | 122,000/24,500 | 137,000/25,000
Estimated Number of Insurgents
-- | 5,000 | 3,000-5,000 | 5,000
Estimated Number of Foreign Fighters/Jihadists
50 | 200 | 400 | 500
U.S. Troop Fatalities
22 | 36 | 40 | 131
Other Foreign Troop Fatalities
2 | 7 | 9 | 5
Foreign Civilian Fatalities
0 | 25 | 0 | 13
U.S. Helicopters Downed by Enemy
0 | 0 | 2 | 1
Insurgent Attacks on Oil Assets
2 | 3 | 9 | 4
Insurgents Detained/Killed
1,000 | 1,000 | 1,000 | 2,000
Iraq Noncombat Fatalities (from war)
250 | 40 | 115 | 400
Iraqi Police Officers Trained to Date (as percentage of goal; includes partial training)
0 | 1 | 5 | 19
Iraqi Soldiers Trained to Date (as percentage of goal)
0 | 0 | 1 | 6
Iraqi Security Personnel Trained to Date (all others; as percentage of goal)
0 | 2 | 70 | 90

Economic and Quality of Life Indicators
April 2003 (April 10 on) | August | December | April
Unemployment Rate (percentage)
60 | 55 | 45 | 45
Oil Production (millions of barrels/day; prewar rate: 2.8-3.0 mb/d)
0.1 | 1.5 | 2.3 | 2.4
Oil Exports (prewar rate: 2.1 mb/day)
0 | 0.6 | 1.5 | 1.6
Motor Fuel Availability (as percentage of estimated requirement)
20 | 60 | 60 | 95
Heating/Cooking Fuel Availability (as percentage of estimated requirement)
25 | 55 | 85 | 80
Electricity (in gigawatts; prewar: 4.4)
3.0 | 3.3 | 3.4 | 3.8
Telephone Service (as percentage of prewar level)
20 | 100 | 110 | 130
Schools Needing Repair
12,000 | 11,300 | 10,000 | 9,500
U.S. Aid Disbursed, Cumulative (total amount available is roughly $20 billion)
$100 million | $300 million | $900 million | $1.5 billion
Health Care Clinics Renovated, Cumulative (out of 600)
0 | 0 | 10 | 52
Small Loans Disbursed, Cumulative (for population of 25 million)
0 | 100 | 1,000 | 2,000
Judges Vetted, Cumulative
0 | 100 | 300 | 860

Iraqi Morale and Views of the U.S.
April 2003 (April 10 on) | August | December | April
Iraqis Feeling Better Off Since War (percentage)
-- | 35 | 55 | 40
Iraqis Wanting U.S. Forces To Stay (percentage)
-- | 70 | 70 | 35

Strider · Aug 2, 2005

Progress? We pissed off all the people that don't like us anyway. Now we can succesfully label them as enemies, and kill them all.

Progress enough for me.

What progess has been made in Iraq

Chieftain

ThEy MaDe Me Do iT.

Chieftain

March to the Sea

Oh Dear

Deity

Oh Dear

BOB DYLAN'S ROCKIN OUT!

Deity

BOB DYLAN'S ROCKIN OUT!

Unworshipped Deity

Oh Dear

BOB DYLAN'S ROCKIN OUT!

Deity

Oh Dear

BOB DYLAN'S ROCKIN OUT!

Retired Captain

Oh Dear

BOB DYLAN'S ROCKIN OUT!

In Retrospect

Similar threads