Quick Answers / 'Newbie' Questions

Sisiutil is right, redundant roads give the defender a huge advantage. In real life a key part of any invasion is to destroy the defender's ability to reinforce the front. In Civ4 not only is it impossible to destroy roads with artillery and planes (I think), but the redundancy of roads and railroads combined with the way seige weapons work is a defender's paradise. I was thinking they should put a maintainance fee on roads or excess roads (roads that aren't between cities or major resources wouldn't pay for themselves), but that would get ridiculously complicated.

Roland Johansen said:

(The Machine Gun) is a purely defensive unit. Typically, I'd only use it in cities that are under serious attack or one of them in a stack as stack defense (against infantry). They are not the most useful unit.

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I would rather say that they're an extremely useful unit for a rather limited time (post-Rifles, pre-Artillery) and for a very specific purpose (protecting stacks or workers). I generally don't wage much war in the Industrial Age, but did so in my last game and was really happy to use MG's again. I like capturing a city, bringing in worker pairs covered by MG's to connect up rails, and using that mobility to quickly reinforce and resupply my army. No way that an attacking Infantry is going to touch a Drill 1/2 MG...

having trouble putting settlers on ships. Anyone got any advice?

which ships are you putting them in, up until Galleons(and Astronomy) you cant put settlers in ships

rvrjim1 said:

having trouble putting settlers on ships. Anyone got any advice?

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flamingzaroc121 said:

which ships are you putting them in, up until Galleons(and Astronomy) you cant put settlers in ships

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The above comment is not true. Maybe you mean that the galleon is the first ship that can transport settlers over the ocean. But you can already transport settlers on galleys, the first ships that become available in the game. It just cannot traverse the ocean.

To rvrjim1: Are you maybe trying to transport settlers on warships like the trireme or the battleship? Those ships were designed for war, not for transporting units. Or maybe you were trying to use the caravel for transporting settlers. It also cannot transport any big units. It can only transport a few types of small units like missionaries and spies. You can read all of the above in the civliopedia entries of the various units. I hope this helps you further. Good luck.

I thought that sounded a bit odd. Yes, of course Settlers are transportable in Galleys, then Galleons and Transports when they become available later. Those are the only three ships (as far as I can recall) which can transport Settlers, as well as the bulk of your land-based military unit types.

Another newbie question: when I chop down a forest, I get an immediate hammers boost to the production of the nearest city, right? But (reading one of the other threads) I see this is not permanent, just a one-off boost - right again? In other words, you need to time your chopping to help you to rush improvements that take a long time to build (eg wonders). After that, you just get the normal benefit of whatever terrain lies underneath the forest you've just cut down.

Is this right? If so, what tips would the experienced players give for cutting down forests? I've so far just gone at them hammer and tongs right at the start (as soon as I get BW, that is) but would it be better to wait and time the chopping more effectively?

OscarWildebeest said:

Another newbie question: when I chop down a forest, I get an immediate hammers boost to the production of the nearest city, right? But (reading one of the other threads) I see this is not permanent, just a one-off boost - right again? In other words, you need to time your chopping to help you to rush improvements that take a long time to build (eg wonders). After that, you just get the normal benefit of whatever terrain lies underneath the forest you've just cut down.

Is this right? If so, what tips would the experienced players give for cutting down forests? I've so far just gone at them hammer and tongs right at the start (as soon as I get BW, that is) but would it be better to wait and time the chopping more effectively?

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Yes, this is correct. Forests provide a one-time hammer bonus (the amount dependent on technologies (Mathematics gives a bonus of 50%), as well as distance from city) when you chop them down. The bonus is immediate (though I think in the recent Warlords patch they made it so it doesn't take effect until the next turn).

You are also right that you get the base terrain when you chop down the forest (so if you chop down a plains forest, you're left with a plains). So, sometimes I like to keep a few forests standing not only for the health benefit, but for the reason that I can build a lumbermill later. If a city is low on hammers, keeping a forest alive might help it, since you'll have a 2 food / 2 hammer tile (3 hammers with a railroad), compared to just a 3 food (farm) or 3 food and some commerce (cottage) tile. You've just got to weigh the decision in your mind about whether a not a city needs a short term or long term benefit.

One extra note: you can chop forests that aren't in your cities' radii and still get the benefit! So if your city has a lot of culture, providing lots of tiles it can't work, cut the forests down for the extra shields (and so future attackers don't get defensive bonuses).

I can see I'm going to have to spend a lot more time thinking about the specific improvements I build around my city.

Which leads me to another question: when my city's borders expand beyond the 'fat cross', do I get any benefit from building improvements outside the area covered by the fat cross? It's just that the fat cross becomes invisible once the borders get really big.

OscarWildebeest said:

Another newbie question: when I chop down a forest, I get an immediate hammers boost to the production of the nearest city, right? But (reading one of the other threads) I see this is not permanent, just a one-off boost - right again? In other words, you need to time your chopping to help you to rush improvements that take a long time to build (eg wonders). After that, you just get the normal benefit of whatever terrain lies underneath the forest you've just cut down.

Is this right? If so, what tips would the experienced players give for cutting down forests? I've so far just gone at them hammer and tongs right at the start (as soon as I get BW, that is) but would it be better to wait and time the chopping more effectively?

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Your information about chopping forests is correct.

It's usually best to get any production boosts as early as possible. An extra 20 production (production boost from forests at the start of the game at the normal speed setting) at the start of the game for your first city is worth as much as 1000 production at the end of the game. Maybe, I'm exagerating a little, but remember that that production at the start of the game can save you many turns of producing an item. So you have effectively reached a state in the game which you would have reached a few turns later without chopping. This is not completely true as city growth and research are not directly effected but only indirectly. But producing an item like a settler sooner will mean that the research of the city build by that settler will start a few turns sooner and the growth of that city will start a few turns sooner.

So, in general, you'll want to have the production as soon as possible. But in civ, there often are no ultimate solutions. So, I'll present a few situations in which I would wait with chopping a forest.

1) Sometimes there are better things to do with your worker.
For instance:
I have just build my first worker. I can choose between farming a wheat source or chopping a forest. I might choose for the wheat resource if I think I need the food fast. The food can help build another worker and help grow my city. After that, I might chop the forest to help finish the worker production.
2) I need the health benefits from the forests (each forest square inside the fat cross of the city area adds +0.5 ).
At the start of the game, you haven't hooked up any health resources and your city might get into health problems if you chop too many forests. This is entirely situational.
3) I'm about to research mathematics which will increase the output of chopping forests from 20 to 30 (normal speed setting). I will often wait until I've finished the research of mathematics before I finish chopping the forests.
4) I see that the forest tiles are the only source of production for the city (no hills) and the city also doesn't have a nice food surplus which could be used for whipping (using the slavery civic). I might leave some forests for production in that situation.
5) I've located a nice city with many forest tiles and plan to get a certain great wonder. I might save the forests so that I can finish the wonder by chopping forests.
Note that you can 'pre-chop' forests. If a forest takes 4 turns to chop and you chop it for 3 turns and stop the worker at that point, then there's only 1 turn of chopping needed later to finish the job. If you build a road on the forest tile so that you can come back to the tile quickly, then you can get a lot of production in a few turns by finishing the pre-chopped tiles. This way, the gamble for a great wonder is not so much of a gamble if you finish the pre-chops all at once and finish the production of the wonder by doing so.

Some other interesting facts about chopping:

-Chops can be usefull to get workers and settlers out of a city quickly without stalling the growth of the city. That can be useful if you want the food to be used for growing the city (instead of producing workers and settlers).
-The production from chopping forests is modified by the production bonusses in the city.
-If you chop forests outside the fat cross of the city or outside the cultural borders, then the production will be significantly less.

edit: cross-posted with Ginger_Ale.

OscarWildebeest said:

I can see I'm going to have to spend a lot more time thinking about the specific improvements I build around my city.

Which leads me to another question: when my city's borders expand beyond the 'fat cross', do I get any benefit from building improvements outside the area covered by the fat cross? It's just that the fat cross becomes invisible once the borders get really big.

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No, you don't get any production, food or commerce bonusses from those tiles. You only get production, food and commerce from the tiles that are being used by citizens in your city. The little white circles in the city designate which tiles are being used. So not even every tile inside the fat cross is being used directly. This is especially important with cottages as they only grow when they are used by the city.

Build new cities to use the other terrain outside the fat cross.

You do get the benefit from resources connected to your empire that are not inside the fat cross of any of your cities. So if you have connected iron, then you will be able to build swordsmen even if the iron is not inside the fat cross of any of your cities.

It can be easy for you eyes to activate the map grid (CTRL-t) if you're having trouble seeing which tiles are inside the fat cross of your cities.

Thanks, RJ. So I can get the benefit of resources (eg copper) but there's no point in building farms outside the fat cross unless I found another city whose fat cross covers the farmed tiles. I understand now.

I'm really enjoying the complexity of this game!

As RJ said, forests give +0.5 health. So preserve an even number of forests, if you have five cut one or three or all.

Does a good commerce city result in a good research city?

I have messed around in the world builder and made the following city:

11 tiles of grasslands with pigs and bordered by a rivers (cottages, not pastures)
3 tiles of fresh water with fish
2 tiles of ocean with fish (edit: to make it a coastal city)
4 tiles of plain hills with gold bordered by rivers

Any improvements to this?

OscarWildebeest said:

Thanks, RJ. So I can get the benefit of resources (eg copper) but there's no point in building farms outside the fat cross unless I found another city whose fat cross covers the farmed tiles. I understand now.

I'm really enjoying the complexity of this game!

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As RJ pointed out, only build that farm (outisde of a city's fat cross) if there is rice, wheat, or corn that you need to link.

OscarWildebeest said:

Thanks, RJ. So I can get the benefit of resources (eg copper) but there's no point in building farms outside the fat cross unless I found another city whose fat cross covers the farmed tiles. I understand now.

I'm really enjoying the complexity of this game!

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Actually, there might be a point to building farms outside your fat cross, if you want to bring irrigation into your city's lands (after Civil Service), and don't have any fresh water within the city's radius. That's probably the one exception.

OK, I'm clear on that, thanks!

a4phantom said:

As RJ said, forests give +0.5 health. So preserve an even number of forests, if you have five cut one or three or all.

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But it would be wise to ensure that none of those unchopped forest tiles borders a city, wouldn't it? You don't want to give the enemy cover.

OscarWildebeest said:

But it would be wise to ensure that none of those unchopped forest tiles borders a city, wouldn't it? You don't want to give the enemy cover.

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Yes, that's one of my considerations for chopping as well: forests in tiles adjacent to the city should be chopped before those further away. Forest next to rivers are also targets before those on dry tiles, as those tiles are better for cottages, irrigation, or, later, watermills.

I'm not sure is this is the best place to post this, but I have recently purchased CIV IV, and I must say I am very unhappy with the speed of play. Civ I, and II were really fast between turns, but IV seems to slow down terribly. I'm now in the final stages of the game, but it takes easily 2 to 5 minutes for AI to move, and for other end turn stuff to happen. At times, game play even freezes when I change between units that I want to move. What gives? I have a brand new Sony Vaio, with more than enough stuff to meet the sys requirements for game play. Any help?