A few random feature requests

13.
IMO your suggestion is very complicated.
Slavery is good as it is.

14.
I am not sure if it is doable at all, but sure the AI would not know how to use it.

15.
What is the sense in that?? Especially in sending the commerce?
"Moving hammers" you can hurry production either by caravans or by hurry production in some civics.

george585 said:

After some silence, I will continue:

13. [Game Mechanics] Make Slavery Civic more meaningful: upon capturing an enemy city, have an additional option of taking part of its population and distributing it to your cities either as free slave specialists or perhaps as actual population increase (albeit with an extra unhappy face for each pop increase, which can later disappear when you abolish slavery). The population available for distribution as slaves may be a random percentage of city's population depending on various odds. Once distributed, you may still have the option of destroying the city.

14. [Diplomacy] Trade city population. Occasionally you may have a city that is just growing too quickly and is becoming waay unhappy. It may therefore be viable to trade it's population with another player. The way it can be implemented is in similar way as trading cities currently is implemented, you can select any of your cities and specify an amount of population to trade from it, if it is the other player, then it will basically list all cities where the ai player wants to trade population (up to a certain amount), i.e. Rome (5 available), Pompeii (3 available), etc. On the receiving end, the reciever should probably just get population added to the slowest growing cities automatically. Additionally, maybe make this diplo option available only under certain conditions like Open Borders, and/or certain civics.

15. [Game Mechanics] As was suggested already for food, perhaps consider some form of "production/commerce/food routes" that you can establish between your cities. So that not only food output can be sent from one city to another, but also commerce and production (perhaps at some % cost pf course, or a fixed monetary cost (that can depend on civcs you have)).

Click to expand...

13 - Maybe your ways of describing it are confusing or too simple yet, but you touched a point that needs some rethinking: Slavery. I have to disagree with Sogroon: Slavery isn't good as it is, but to change it we would need an effort as similar as the one we are doing to Advanced Economy and Trade Routes. So maybe later with more brainstorming.

14 - I would like real examples of this mechanic, because as far as I know this isn't an usual thing in history. It seems to me an incredible game mechanic, but ahistorical. PIE's Ancient Europe has the Immigrant unit that consumes population to be produced and may build a city, join a city as pop and even remove a small city from the map (if it's yours). Immigrants may trigger by event if your city is too or . BTW I think AND has a Random Event associated with immigration (that's different from BtS one).

15 - This one is not a good option for 2 reasons now:
1st: We already have a simpler way of taking a city's food/production and give to another, it's the Caravan unit that consumes food to be produced and may give or to another city (and can make Trade Mission in foreign cities as well)
2nd: Trade Routes are going to be removed, so we won't be able to use them for this purpose (Once again PIE's Ancient Europe had Trade Routes)
About there is *almost* no purpose in taking from a city and giving it to another commerce: only affects your empire as a whole, and not each city). The only situation where taken from a city and given to another can be good is if the 'To' city has better modifiers then the 'From' city. IMO if this mechanic was to be implemented we should have penalties for exchanging (taxes moving around bring corruption and thieves), so it's better to stick to what we have now instead of over complicate something that won't bring much difference to the game

Actually, for the last one, concerning commerce, it would be interesting (albeit, kind of useless and unnecessary) to move commerce from one city with less science buildings but more commerce, to another city with more science buildings that could use more commerce.

Thank you all for the feedback! I should explain and elaborate a little:

13. Basically my main concern/issue with how slavery is currently implemented is that is concentrates on internal side. That is it affects your CIV only. However, historically slavery was a very important "international" factor in that conquered peoples were turned into slaves and/or deported to the conqueror's civilization, or forced to settle elsewhere. Assyrians and Romans certainly come to mind.

So, IMHO, a game mechanic whereby after you capture other civ's city and/or certain units (maybe), it would make sense that you, under certain conditions perhaps (this is all debatable - I am just outlining basic idea here) get to increase either the population of your city/cities or specialist counts (or both) - either directly or indirectly. Directly would mean Total War Style (you get 3 choices when you conquer city, one of them being Send population into slavery - spreading population equally among your cities). Indirectly could be represented by you getting certain number of settler-type units that can be used to increase population of your cities, or perhaps they could become a certain kind of settled specialists (like slave deportees for example). IMHO, the indirect approach would be even better as it gives you more control.

Another thing to note is that way, after you capture a city, which you intend to keep for example, if some % of its population gets converted to slaves that way, then it should reduce the chancel/length of that city rebelling/refusing to work, etc. So it can tie in nicely with Revolutions mod for example (though, of course having those slaves elsewhere in your cities in one form or another would rev-destabilize those cities).

14. Peoples migrated from place to place throughout history, due to a whole variety of factors. I think this whole idea should somehow be addressed better/more deeply. Trading population is just one such idea/implementation.

15. Consider for example one of your cities specializes in Science, and it has several Wonders built to that extent, i.e. Plato's Academy, Academy, Great Library for example. Therefore, the more raw commerce it gets, the higher it's science output will be, since it gets extra boost from those wonders. Therefore, sending more raw commerce to it would make more sense to speed up research. Especially considering that it may be lacking in commerce generating resource/improvements in its vicinity like gold, gems, plantations, etc.; and the reason you built science wonders there was perhaps because it had highest production output and you didn't want your opponents to beat you to that. That's just one example.

As for food and production, it too would make sense:
- It would help cities with little food output to grow faster (i.e. sending food from cities with lots of flood plains to those in Tundra for example).
- It would help cities with small production output actually build things so they are not a few centuries behind.
- It represents realistic workings of economy in real life. For example, Egypt was supplying Rome with grain, and there are countless examples like this.
- It adds deeper level to the game.
- Also, it would make sense to have the expense needed for those "yield trade routes" be proportional to a) distance, b) road/ocean/river access, c) territory type and type of existing agreements (i.e. neutral/hostile, have open borders or not).

16. [BONUSES/RESOURCES] This is somewhat a matter of taste perhaps, but I would prefer bonuses to have a bigger "punch" once they get improved. How is it, for example that Gold is only a iota more valuable than Copper (in terms of it brings once improved)? Cows are just as good as wheat? No difference between Lead and Iron in production output? Spices are just as valuable as Gold even in modern age? Etc.... You get the idea.

14. Sounds like the original Immigration mod by Orion Veteran. Basically when the population was dissatisfied enough in a city an Immigrant unit was produced (reducing the population of the city) which would wander off and join another city. It was not under the control of any player, but you could click on it to take control if it was one of yours. The unit may join another of your cities or the city of someone else if you were at peace and had open borders with them.

You would probably want to extend it so that barbarian cities could also give up their population to immigrants to simulate some of the drift that has happened in history.

Dancing Hoskuld said:

14. Sounds like the original Immigration mod by Orion Veteran. Basically when the population was dissatisfied enough in a city an Immigrant unit was produced (reducing the population of the city) which would wander off and join another city. It was not under the control of any player, but you could click on it to take control if it was one of yours. The unit may join another of your cities or the city of someone else if you were at peace and had open borders with them.

You would probably want to extend it so that barbarian cities could also give up their population to immigrants to simulate some of the drift that has happened in history.

Click to expand...

This sounds like an interesting mod to merge with AND. My only concern is if AI is able to use it properly and if other AND modders agree in adding it (as an option, of course). If we can make AI use it, this one and Migrating Great People would be a nice addition IMO.

Dancing Hoskuld said:

14. Sounds like the original Immigration mod by Orion Veteran. Basically when the population was dissatisfied enough in a city an Immigrant unit was produced (reducing the population of the city) which would wander off and join another city. It was not under the control of any player, but you could click on it to take control if it was one of yours. The unit may join another of your cities or the city of someone else if you were at peace and had open borders with them.

You would probably want to extend it so that barbarian cities could also give up their population to immigrants to simulate some of the drift that has happened in history.

Click to expand...

I remember that modcomp!

Sadly the AI for those units really sucked, and IIRC, they were some hacked up form of barbarian. It was also really easily manipulated.

I guess I would be curious if those issues were ever fixed.

Afforess said:

I remember that modcomp!

Sadly the AI for those units really sucked, and IIRC, they were some hacked up form of barbarian. It was also really easily manipulated.

I guess I would be curious if those issues were ever fixed.

Click to expand...

IIRC DH or Koshling fixed some problems with AI logic that was based on using them as settlers.

The last version I saw before it was merged into the dll it used similar logic as the missionary/executive. I.E. it found a target city it can get to and then goes there without regard to danger on the way. In the case I saw the unit just looked for the nearest and smallest city in your empire. The city had to have population less than 7 also. It did not look at neighbouring nations.