Civics Improvements Suggestions

<Nexus> · Jul 29, 2014

One more suggestion for Territory Governance/Domestic category:

Colonial
This should be the one representing the European colonial period, which was the era from the 16th century to the mid-20th century, when several European powers (particularly, but not exclusively, Portugal, Spain, Britain, the Netherlands, Russia, Italy and France) established colonies in Asia, Africa, and the Americas. At first the countries followed mercantilist policies designed to strengthen the home economy at the expense of rivals, so the colonies were usually allowed to trade only with the mother country. (Wikipedia)

Vassals would not break away when reaching the population or territorial limit.
Vassals cannot trade with foreign civs (no trade contentedness to others than the master).

What do you think, is it a good idea? Is it doable at all?

Der_Zorn_gottes · Jul 29, 2014

I like the idea of a civic that affects your vassals very much.
However, I think this suggestion does very little - even with a lot of vassals (something I quite often have) I would not be inclined to run this civic. No Vassal has ever broken away from me anyway.
How about making their land area and poplation count 100% towards you domination count?

Arakhor · Jul 29, 2014

I've only had one willing vassal ever break away from me and that was to declare war, as they really wanted to go to war with someone with whom I was allied.

88GTS · Jul 29, 2014

Sogroon said:
One more suggestion for Territory Governance/Domestic category:

Colonial
This should be the one representing the European colonial period, which was the era from the 16th century to the mid-20th century, when several European powers (particularly, but not exclusively, Portugal, Spain, Britain, the Netherlands, Russia, Italy and France) established colonies in Asia, Africa, and the Americas. At first the countries followed mercantilist policies designed to strengthen the home economy at the expense of rivals, so the colonies were usually allowed to trade only with the mother country. (Wikipedia)

Vassals would not break away when reaching the population or territorial limit.

Vassals cannot trade with foreign civs (no trade contentedness to others than the master).

What do you think, is it a good idea? Is it doable at all?

Agree that it's a good idea, but needs more effects. This was actually one I thought of listing but couldn't think of enough to differentiate it from Federal but with your ideas it's different enough. Perhaps in addition to what you listed:

- -75% maintenance for overseas cities
- +15% :hammers:

and +15%

in overseas cities (assuming this is possible)
- +2 :yuck:

+2

in overseas cities (again assuming possible)

Building: Export Office - +1 :mad:

, +2

from plantation, +2 :hammers:

from quarry, +1 :hammers:

and +1

from gold, silver, gems in city radius. Requires plantation or quarry or gold or silver or gems in city radius.

Thoughts? Doable, useful, balanced?

<Nexus> · Jul 30, 2014

Der_Zorn_gottes said:
I like the idea of a civic that affects your vassals very much.
However, I think this suggestion does very little - even with a lot of vassals(...)
How about making their land area and poplation count 100% towards you domination count?

Yes, I wrote about only the main difference, but it needs more content.
I am curious what the devs think about it.
I think it is programmable (for Affores sure), but I wonder if the AI could use it well, what balance issues would be there, and whether it is exploitable or not?
Maybe it is just an insane dream of mine

Afforess · Jul 30, 2014

I like the general idea of territory governance, but I think that the exact ideas proposed for their stats are too constrained. Here is what I would propose:

Tribal
No Upkeep
+0.33 :c5unhappy:

per population

City States (Available at City Planning)
Low Upkeep
+100% Number of City Maintenance
+100% Distance to Palace Maintenance
+25% :culture:

,

+10%

in all cities
+50% military unit production
+1 :c5happy:

in largest cities

Provincial (Available at Aristocracy)
Medium Upkeep
-50% Distance to Palace Maintenance
-10% :hammers:

in all cities
50% Less Happiness from Luxury Resources
Road construction is Free
+50% :hammers:

to settler, workers

Fiefdom (Available at Vassalage)
High Upkeep
+0.33 :c5unhappy:

per population
+100% :food:

required to grow population
+10% :hammers:

in all cities
+10% :gold:

in all cities
-50% Distant Unit Supply Cost
+25% Military Unit Production

Bureaucracy
Copy From Society Category

Centralized (Available at Communism)
High Upkeep
+50% Number of City Maintenance
+2 :c5happy:

in all cities
50% Less Happiness from Luxury Resources
+15% :hammers:

in all cities
+25% :commerce:

in Capital City
+25% :espionage:

in all cities

Arakhor · Jul 30, 2014

That's an interesting idea. I'm not sure how well it would work, but it could be quite fun.

Rezca · Jul 30, 2014

I like this idea, would have to play with those settings a bit to see how they'd work with various playstyles though (Since we all seem to tackle the game in different ways ^^ What's "overpowered" to one person might be severely limiting to another)

Afforess said:
I like the general idea of territory governance, but I think that the exact ideas proposed for their stats are too constrained. Here is what I would propose:

Tribal
No Upkeep
+0.33 per population

City States (Available at City Planning)
Low Upkeep
+100% Number of City Maintenance
+100% Distance to Palace Maintenance
+25% ,
+10% in all cities
+50% military unit production
+1 in largest cities

Provincial (Available at Aristocracy)
Medium Upkeep
-50% Distance to Palace Maintenance
-10% in all cities
50% Less Happiness from Luxury Resources
Road construction is Free
+50% to settler, workers

Fiefdom (Available at Vassalage)
High Upkeep
+0.33 per population
+100% required to grow population
+10% in all cities
+10% in all cities
-50% Distant Unit Supply Cost
+25% Military Unit Production

Bureaucracy
Copy From Society Category

Centralized (Available at Communism)
High Upkeep
+50% Number of City Maintenance
+2 in all cities
50% Less Happiness from Luxury Resources
+15% in all cities
+25% in Capital City
+25% in all cities

gay_Aleks · Jul 30, 2014

I find Tribal very punishing, considering that the next civic is in City Planning and gives a lot of +% maintenance modifiers. With proper terrain, the unhappiness could skyrocket faster than it already does.

Afforess · Jul 30, 2014

Tolni said:
I find Tribal very punishing, considering that the next civic is in City Planning and gives a lot of +% maintenance modifiers. With proper terrain, the unhappiness could skyrocket faster than it already does.

Provincial and City States both come around the same time.

gay_Aleks · Jul 30, 2014

Afforess said:
Provincial and City States both come around the same time.

How would the 50% less happiness and free roads work? I thought game doesn't work well with decimals.

Afforess · Jul 30, 2014

Tolni said:
How would the 50% less happiness and free roads work? I thought game doesn't work well with decimals.

Free roads would make the worker build action for roads, free. Right now, it costs :gold:

to build roads, if you hadn't noticed.

50% less happiness from luxury resources is easy. Take the total sum of all happy from resources, multiply by 50, divide by 100. So if it was 6 before, then 3.

Vokarya · Aug 2, 2014

Are you taking requests for any new civic choices? I'm not so sure we need new categories at this time, but I've got a bunch of ideas for choices within the existing categories kicking around and I think some of them would be good to help salve some of the weaker techs on the tree.

os79 · Aug 2, 2014

Vokarya said:
Are you taking requests for any new civic choices? I'm not so sure we need new categories at this time, but I've got a bunch of ideas for choices within the existing categories kicking around and I think some of them would be good to help salve some of the weaker techs on the tree.

Go ahead. Knowing Afforess, he loves feedback and suggestions

.

Afforess · Aug 2, 2014

Vokarya said:
Are you taking requests for any new civic choices? I'm not so sure we need new categories at this time, but I've got a bunch of ideas for choices within the existing categories kicking around and I think some of them would be good to help salve some of the weaker techs on the tree.

Absolutely.

Vokarya · Aug 2, 2014

So here's a civic choice for the Military category.

Warrior Caste
Category: Military
Tech: Caste System
Upkeep: Low

Effects:

-10-20% all yields food:, , ). This should be enough to be noticeable but not enough to really cripple.
+20-40% military unit production (more than enough to cancel out the hammer penalty)
+2 XP for all units. If this proves to be too powerful in conjunction with the Caste civic, I would take the +2 XP away from Caste and keep it here.
+1 from Graveyard.

There are two goals here: give a second piece of content to Caste System and provide an early-game alternative to Conscription. The reduced yields are supposed to show that the warrior caste hates being forced to work in any capacity other than fighting, but because they spend so much time at it, you get faster unit production and more experience. The +1

from Graveyard is to show the attention paid to the honored dead in warrior cultures.

Note: I don't know what the Revolution changes should be. I was looking at the code and I noticed that Banditry has NO revolution index penalties at all. I think usually the first civic choice in each category has the worst penalties to get you to switch out of it quickly, but I could be wrong. We might need a chart of this just to see.

Afforess · Aug 2, 2014

I like the idea. The only thing I would advise against is making a civic give negative :food:

yields (that can cause immediate starvation, which is enough to turn away any player from the civic). Instead it is better to make city growth require, say 33% more :food:

to grow.

Rezca · Aug 3, 2014

I like the idea of Warrior Caste, and providing an extra 'bonus' to Caste tech is nice too.
I agree with Afforess in that it'd probably be better to have a +15% ~ +33% City Growth Requirement like with Despotism might be a better alternative.

gay_Aleks · Aug 3, 2014

Finally, a decent reason to research Caste.

youmakemefart · Aug 3, 2014

Afforess said:
I like the general idea of territory governance, but I think that the exact ideas proposed for their stats are too constrained. Here is what I would propose:

Tribal
No Upkeep
+0.33 per population

City States (Available at City Planning)
Low Upkeep
+100% Number of City Maintenance
+100% Distance to Palace Maintenance
+25% ,
+10% in all cities
+50% military unit production
+1 in largest cities

Provincial (Available at Aristocracy)
Medium Upkeep
-50% Distance to Palace Maintenance
-10% in all cities
50% Less Happiness from Luxury Resources
Road construction is Free
+50% to settler, workers

Fiefdom (Available at Vassalage)
High Upkeep
+0.33 per population
+100% required to grow population
+10% in all cities
+10% in all cities
-50% Distant Unit Supply Cost
+25% Military Unit Production

Bureaucracy
Copy From Society Category

Centralized (Available at Communism)
High Upkeep
+50% Number of City Maintenance
+2 in all cities
50% Less Happiness from Luxury Resources
+15% in all cities
+25% in Capital City
+25% in all cities

OH God this is glorious!

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King

Dremora Courtier

Chieftain

Traveler of the Multiverse

The White Wizard

Dremora Courtier

The Greatest Jaggi

from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free!

The White Wizard

from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free!

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Deity

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from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free!

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