Religions: Asatru and Shinto

I really don't think the game needs more ancient religions. Can you at least drop Zoroastrianism and Naghualism if you are going to add these?
 
I really don't think the game needs more ancient religions. Can you at least drop Zoroastrianism and Naghualism if you are going to add these?
These aren't ancient. They both appear in middle age.
 
45°38'N-13°47'E;13354377 said:
These aren't ancient. They both appear in middle age.

I don't see how Shinto could be founded post-classical and still make historical sense. And by ancient I really meant pre-industrial. Norse religion is definitely middle ages though.
 
I don't see how Shinto could be founded post-classical and still make historical sense. And by ancient I really meant pre-industrial. Norse religion is definitely middle ages though.

I'm using when Shinto was formalized (8th century) as its founding time. We're not taking away any religions, and we're not putting in anything Renaissance or later, as that would be just "rich get richer" -- with the large increase in time needed to research Medieval techs over Classical, it gives any player that hasn't founded a religion yet a chance to found one by going down a different path than the Feudalism-Guilds path the AI always seems to follow. I see Shinto as much like Christianity; it's a Medieval Era religion mostly for balancing purposes so that there isn't a total overload in the Classical Era.
 
Every religion needs a Monastery to train Missionaries. Especially since the first civic that lets you train Missionaries without a Monastery doesn't come around until the Medieval Era (Papacy tech unless you get lucky with Shwedagon Paya), we need these. Like most religious buildings, Monasteries are built to a fairly standard plan:
  • Cost 60
  • +2 :culture:
  • +10% :science:
  • +1 :) if leader is Spiritual
  • +1 :health: if running Church civic
  • Can train appropriate Missionary

The exceptions are Taoist Monastery costs 70 and provides Martial Arts promotions; Hellenic Gymnasia provides Pankration promotions with no additional cost; Jewish Monastery has a Spread rating of 2 while all the others are 1 (but Jewish Temple is only 1 where most others are 2, so it balances out).

For the Asatru Monastery, I'm going to go out on a limb. As I don't see Asatru being a particularly intellectual religion, I'm giving the Asatru Monastery an XP bonus to certain classes of units in place of the normal Science bonus. This bonus is +2 XP to Melee, Gunpowder, and Wooden Ships units. I think this parallels the Monastery science trend; the bonus starts at a certain level, comes down once rational thought starts to really develop (Humanism cuts down on Monastery science; Steam Ships cut down on the benefit from Asatru Monastery) and then disappears in the Modern Era, whether it is the Monastery being replaced by a School or going obsolete at Modern Physics. Another alternative would be Melee + Wooden Ships + Steam Ships, but I think this will be the most playable.
View attachment 379795View attachment 379794

The Shinto Monastery is pretty much built to spec. I don't see much reason to go off in any weird way. I took a field screenshot to see how the building would look if you play with all buildings visible; it's on the right in the field screenshot.
View attachment 379796View attachment 379797
 
Very nice :)

@Vokarya: Are you satisfied with religion music for Asatru in C2C? I feel it "too peaceful" and fitting to it. I have made an alternate music for myself and would be more than happy to show it if there is interest :)
 
Very nice :)

@Vokarya: Are you satisfied with religion music for Asatru in C2C? I feel it "too peaceful" and fitting to it. I have made an alternate music for myself and would be more than happy to show it if there is interest :)

I think I'm satisfied with the music that is out there. I don't think it's too peaceful, and I would rather not have the religion music be too dramatic as you're going to hear it a lot. I had to tone down the volume on several sound effects so they weren't overpowering.
 
I think I'm satisfied with the music that is out there. I don't think it's too peaceful, and I would rather not have the religion music be too dramatic as you're going to hear it a lot. I had to tone down the volume on several sound effects so they weren't overpowering.

Well, it's your decision, but still please take a look at my creation:
View attachment nordic.zip
I don't think it's too dramatic.
And here is the original sound pack for the others as well to compare the two.
View attachment nordic c2c.zip
 
You are probably aware of these, so just as reminders.
  • The Hellenic Gymnasia's construction sound is Christian not Hellenic. Is that intentional?
  • Naghual's founding movie is missing (currently it is Hinduism), although there is nice movie for it in C2C - so long as a bloody bowl can be called nice :lol:
  • Have you decided to remove the Moral promotion from The Kong Miao?
 
Spread factor covers how quickly the religion spreads. It increases with how late the religion is founded. I never adjusted Hinduism's factor, so it's pretty low. I might bring it up to about 35 to place it with the other religions. This is the current mix.
Hinduism 20
Kemetism 20
Zoroastrianism 25
Judaism 30
Buddhism 35
Hellenism 40
Naghualism 45
Christianity 50
Confucianism 50
Taoism 50
Islam 60

I want Asatru to be a vigorous, spreading religion and Shinto to be a little more insular.
  • Asatru has a spread factor of 60.
  • Shinto has a spread factor of 45.

I'll do the rest in the next post.

I doubt that Asatru should spread faster than Christianity, as fast as Islam. After all Christianity was a really "preaching" religion. Islam too, but in a more aggressive way.
So I suggest reducing Asatru's spread rate or increase of the later two.
 
I'd suggest 40 for Asatru - it's on par with Hellenism, another cultural religion, and (as Sogroon says), it's not then competing with the infamous "missionary" religions.
 
I doubt that Asatru should spread faster than Christianity, as fast as Islam. After all Christianity was a really "preaching" religion. Islam too, but in a more aggressive way.
So I suggest reducing Asatru's spread rate or increase of the later two.

+1

plus Naghual's rate should be decreased also.

JosEPh
 
In BTS, spread rates are 100 across the board. I think the spread rates are set so as to not privilege the earlier religions. I'll put Asatru at 50 and Shinto at 40, but no lower.
 
Naghual Movie: I think I found the one being referred to, but I really don't want the bowl. How do you think this looks without the bowl?
.
View attachment 379899

There is a second more generic one that could also work.

View attachment 379900

Hellenic Sounds: It doesn't look like there are any Hellenic sounds at all. Is there any other sound that could work? Maybe the Parthenon sound?

Confucian Shrine: I want to remove Morale, but I don't want to actually cut it out without the approval of the other main modders on this project. I think it is quite overpowered, because Morale is a very strong promotion.
 
I like that Naghualist clip.
 
45°38'N-13°47'E;13358785 said:
I have nothing against removing morale if you think it's right.

Morale is the promotion that gives an extra movement, right? I don't have an opinion one way or the other on that.
 
Naghual Movie: I think I found the one being referred to, but I really don't want the bowl. How do you think this looks without the bowl?
.
View attachment 379899
Good, thought I had no problem with the bowl either. Actually almost anything is better than the Shiva-idol :lol:
So I think it will be perfect. Thank you :)

Hellenic Sounds: It doesn't look like there are any Hellenic sounds at all. Is there any other sound that could work? Maybe the Parthenon sound?
Wow, you are right. I thought there is a full pack of soundtracks for every religion and only things are a bit messed up - but no, there isn't :confused:
Parthenon or the one we hear when Hellenism is spread is good enough IMO.
 
In BTS, spread rates are 100 across the board. I think the spread rates are set so as to not privilege the earlier religions.
I know and agree with that philosophy. However since you have re-shuffled religion foundations the spread rates weren't updated I guess.
E.g Kemetism was pushed later

Religion old suggestion
Hinduism 20 35
Kemetism 20 25
Zoroastrianism 25 30
Judaism 30 -
Buddhism 35 -
Hellenism 40 -
Naghualism 45 40
Christianity 50 60
Confucianism 50 45
Taoism 50 -
Islam 60 -
Asatru 50 -
Shinto 40 -
 
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