Despotism or Monarchy?

Just a quick poll. Do you think we should stay in Despotism until we have researched Education (no telling how many turns) as the Domestic Advisor has proposed, with an anarchy period of approximately 7 turns?

Or do you think we should switch immediately, say within the next 3 to 4 turns, and change to Monarchy during our Golden Age, so that our period of anarchy could be reduced to possibly 1 turn.

so the choices are clear...
Despotism for who knows how long?
Monarchy very soon

We should reach Education very quickly, as the AI seems to go straight for it in most cases. It is then ours as soon as they trade it to someone. Also, if we wait until then, we may be at peace, and therefore able to use republic rather than monarchy.

I am not sure about the revolution taking less time if we do it now. Is this documented somewhere? Do revolutions take less time before education or do they take less time during a golden age?

It happened to me Eyrei. I was shocked when my anarchy period was that of a religous tribe, while i was playing a tribe other than that. I was expecting the usual 6 turn anarchy period, but it just wasn't there. I did check for documentation (which was hard to find) and I believe I found it on the Civ3 site. This was a while ago.

Originally posted by Cyc
It happened to me Eyrei. I was shocked when my anarchy period was that of a religous tribe, while i was playing a tribe other than that. I was expecting the usual 6 turn anarchy period, but it just wasn't there. I did check for documentation (which was hard to find) and I believe I found it on the Civ3 site. This was a while ago.

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What level was this on? I believe that the maximum anarchy time goes up with the level, as it also goes down for the AI. I think that the minimum might also go up with level. On monarch, I think the shortest Anarchy I have experienced is 3 turns, while the maximum is 7. This can be checked in the editor to verify. I will not have a chance for a few days, so would someone please check this?

Stick with despot till we finish up with the war, conquering America and other nearby enemy cities. Then switch to republic immediately. We're going to be making peace with most of the other civs anyway; so by then a republic will enable us to begin real internal development w/o war weariness problems.

No point for a monarchic interregnum since we'd switch to rep/demo eventually in any case.

I would be against a revolution during our Golden Age, because we are wasting turns that are twice as valuable. Although the turns in anarchy might be reduced, unless we can prove that I wouldn't want to take that chance. Also, I think before we switch governments, we may want to consider pop-rushing a few improvements (1 library per city, for those that don't already have one).

I was going to start a seperate thread about this, but I strongly recommend we complete at least a library in all cities prior to going into anarchy. The main reason, is that while production, trade, science, and even culture cease during anarchy, there is one thing that does not: TIME! This means that cultural buildings such as libraries, although they do not generate culture, do get OLDER, thereby getting closer to that 1000 year mark where they will double in value. During a 7-turn anarchy, thats 140 years (at this point), or 1/7th of the total time required. At least the anarchy wouldn't be a total waste. Also, those 7 turns are 7 turns of the unhappiness penalty that are used up without really hurting us, leaving only 33 turns left.

The reason I recommend libraries is that they are the easiest to rush for us (scientific), they are exactly one shield and one population. IF they can be built normally without rushing, so much the better, but if not (i.e. some of the newer american cities), then lets rush them while we still can, preferably the turn before we start the revolt. I know this would take a poll, but since we are discussing the timing of the change of government, I thought now would be the time to bring this up.

Another reason this is so important now, is that as we get closer to Education, we must be prepared to pick up the pace of our research once the Great Library expires, and having a library in every city will give us a big boost, especially in Republic. If we wait until after the anarchy, we will be strapped for cash, and rushing libraries will probably not be an option (over 150 gold per, for cities with minimal production).

Disclaimer: This is just my opinion, and does not reflect the official position of the ministry of culture, or any other government entity!

I don't believe anarchies have anything to do with GAs. I have had long anarchies under GAs by test. They do have a random length, but I've had 4, 6, & 8 turns of anarchies under GAs.

my vote would be despotism.

Originally posted by chiefpaco
I don't believe anarchies have anything to do with GAs. I have had long anarchies under GAs by test. They do have a random length, but I've had 4, 6, & 8 turns of anarchies under GAs.

my vote would be despotism.

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I feel monarchy offers greater scope for the better usage of a GA than being stuck in an anarchy for a greater of it

Originally posted by Justus II
Also, I think before we switch governments, we may want to consider pop-rushing a few improvements (1 library per city, for those that don't already have one).

I was going to start a seperate thread about this, but I strongly recommend we complete at least a library in all cities prior to going into anarchy. The main reason, is that while production, trade, science, and even culture cease during anarchy, there is one thing that does not: TIME! This means that cultural buildings such as libraries, although they do not generate culture, do get OLDER, thereby getting closer to that 1000 year mark where they will double in value. During a 7-turn anarchy, thats 140 years (at this point), or 1/7th of the total time required. At least the anarchy wouldn't be a total waste. Also, those 7 turns are 7 turns of the unhappiness penalty that are used up without really hurting us, leaving only 33 turns left.

The reason I recommend libraries is that they are the easiest to rush for us (scientific), they are exactly one shield and one population. IF they can be built normally without rushing, so much the better, but if not (i.e. some of the newer american cities), then lets rush them while we still can, preferably the turn before we start the revolt. I know this would take a poll, but since we are discussing the timing of the change of government, I thought now would be the time to bring this up.

Another reason this is so important now, is that as we get closer to Education, we must be prepared to pick up the pace of our research once the Great Library expires, and having a library in every city will give us a big boost, especially in Republic. If we wait until after the anarchy, we will be strapped for cash, and rushing libraries will probably not be an option (over 150 gold per, for cities with minimal production).

Disclaimer: This is just my opinion, and does not reflect the official position of the ministry of culture, or any other government entity!

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I could not agree more.

i too agree

This is a very important poll, and, should the monarchy option win, we will be switching on the next chat turn, provided it passes a cabinet vote (I am not sure of this, but it does make sense that the cabinet would need to approve a change in governments). Please vote ASAP!

I think this poll is based on false premises. I have seen nothing to indicate that anarchies are 1 turn under GAs. I would consider nixing this poll or at least starting a new one.

People! We are at war! We are in a GA! We should not switch! We will not get this double-production again! By the time the switch is over, the GA will likely be done!

Originally posted by chiefpaco
I think this poll is based on false premises. I have seen nothing to indicate that anarchies are 1 turn under GAs. I would consider nixing this poll or at least starting a new one.

People! We are at war! We are in a GA! We should not switch! We will not get this double-production again! By the time the switch is over, the GA will likely be done!

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I tend to agree, chiefpaco. I have never seen a one turn anarchy with any civ that is not religious. We may have discovered the One, but religious is still not one of our attributes. I think I read on the Civ3 General forum a while back that a GA pauses if you have a revolution, and picks up again afterwards. Regardless, the middle of a war is not a good time to be incapable of production for 3 to 7 turns. What happens if a large force shows up on our borders? There would be next to nothing we could do about it. Revolutions are only really safe when at peace with all civs if you are not religious. I don't want to switch to monarchy anyway, as republic is a superior government and would fit the concept of the democracy game much better.

ChiefPaco and Bamspeedy and I were in chat last night, running a series of tests, and we were unable to duplicate the 1 turn revolution in GA. I know at least one test I did in an old savegame, at Monarch level, where in fact my Golden Age ended on the 5th turn of anarchy, and anarchy did not end until the 7th turn, so it doesn't seem that it pauses. I think this is too big of a risk to take, especially at this time in our history. The advantages are not worth wasting some of our most productive time.

Also, I think everyone would agree that at some point, we will be going to republic, and so I think the wisdom of using monarchy as a short-term measure, with two revolutions, will cost us more than it is worth. During the GA, we are getting the increased production/trade and lower corruption, and after the GA we should be close to getting Republic anyway.

Also, would it be possible to modify the poll, to show an option of despotism till Republic? I'm not sure I remember why we were going to wait for Education, if anything it would be good to get the anarchy out of the way while the Great Library is still operating, since we cant research we could at least still get free techs!

Maybe we should start a new poll?

In light of these new revelations

and add Republic in there too.

And THAT is why I fully support Justus II in a bid for Cultural Minister. Not only is he hard-working and thoughtful, but also eloquent.

I don't think a cabinet vote is required to make a change in government. However, as we are in a Golden Age, at war and the public polls (there are two different polls about what government we should have) are conflicting I think a cibinet vote on the question is entirely appropriate.

As for the one turn anarchy while in a golden age, Aeson brought that up at the end of a turn chat and was not even sure about it himself. I think he has since done some testing and concluded that a golden age does not guarantee a one turn anarchy for non-religious civs.

Originally posted by Falcon02
Maybe we should start a new poll?

In light of these new revelations

and add Republic in there too.

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I concur.

New poll sounds like a good idea...No need to lose all that xtra production for a few turns from our golden age.Do Golden Ages always last only 20 turns????????

I think GAs are always 20 turns. BTW, this poll is old. We did not change govs. GA is over.