Von Münchhausen II

Eager to finish, aren't we?

I went to a birthday party and a late BBQ, and we have two turnsets finished!

Good turns and strong play in both turnsets!

But did we have a rule about selling stuff to the next enemy or not? I guess we just give that a miss in this game, and IF we play another, we make a clear rule about that kind of stuff.

I'm not really fussed atm, as we broke it once or twice already. I rather just win the game. But IF we find it interesting enough to start another game, we should really sort out things before we play.

We have 3 capitols left to take and we have a super army, why twiddling thumbs and not just go for it?

This is for dear Optional only: Scouting is universal and so rewarding! What did those boats find? 4 wonders and 3 or 4 CS? 2 scouts in the early age around Astro, would've done the same!

So, in another game, IF we're going to play another one, I demand enough scouts to check out the map, so we don't wander around blindfolded. 1 scout at the beginning is usually enough for me, but around iron I build a couple more...just to have dudes to snoop around, watching wars and stuff.

The City-States I advised on 2 pages back could defend themselves, that's why I mentioned one CS had 9 units and the other 12. I didn't casually buy Bucharest even if they had iron, it was a deterrant against George, he would throw units against them and as a CS is programmed, they throw anything against an AI! So I bet America lost plenty of units warring CS's only and you got a walk in the park.

Nice sets. This game is definately near the end now.

With Sulieman and Oda having coastal capitals we could try sniping one or both of them rather than fighting through the entire country.

I guess I'm up next? How quickly I forget these things!

Any way I'll look at the last save and post some thoughts.

grandad: I suppose with the new violation of the "proper rules", you have it in your hands.

And GO SMASH THEM!!!!

I say, don't bother anymore, just go berserk as a viking (like me) and KILL THEM ALL! I said it 2 turnsets ago, just walk through them. Unfortunately some cleaning(razing) had to be made.

There's nothing really there to stop you, 3 Caps left take out nasty Japan cap first, then run through Russia and we stab Sully in 2 turnsets!

You have enough dudes!

What I'm really saying, don't bother with peripherical junk, if you get a walkway after taking Moscow, don't bother with little towns. Then we go for Ottomans.

So, does anyone know why my game restarted whenever I hit F12?

Goz, I read your post a couple of times and I think I understand your complaints? You don't want to sell luxuries to the AI if we intend on attacking them at sometime in the near future?

I almost accepted a RA agreement with Cathy because there's a good chance we would want to be finished with Oda, have our happiness order and all of our troops concentrated before we started a war with her. The extra 100 gold was the kicker.

I've enjoyed this game and I'd definitely be interested in participating in another after the XP is released. I agree though, that it might be a good idea to declare a few things at the start. Strict house rules like the one you've been mentioning would be a major consideration.

I'm sure a SG of gods and kings would be pretty great. maybe thats the XP that raises SG games of civ5 to the glory of previous civs.

I dont know why F12 crashed the game, but you can change that button to whatever you like in Steam. I play in windowed mode and use the snipping tool to take pictures.

I can't answer any question about the Steam screenshot utility, NotSure, I'm still using the same Irfanview I already used for Civ III SG's. Irfanview is good for screenshot editing, but not for taking screenshots on the fly.

I've browsed around a bit and I think this could be a good alternative for both of us: http://www.michielovertoom.com/software/snapper/. A rather simple utility, it doesn't even come with an installer, you need to do that manually yourself, but it allows you to take captures on the fly, so I'm at least gonna try it.

NotSure said:

Goz, I read your post a couple of times and I think I understand your complaints? You don't want to sell luxuries to the AI if we intend on attacking them at sometime in the near future?

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Some of us also have Civ III experience, where you blew your reputation if you didn't stick to an agreement. Any strategy game would have penalties in cases like this. Civ 5 is just shabby when it comes to diplo.

It would be tough in an SG to always look 30 turns ahead, though. When we declared on Washington we turned out to have several deals with him going on. Some lux deals, but the deal that concerned me must was the Open Borders he was giving us. That makes us backstabbers, in my view. We did it with Ramesses as well.
I'll be clear: no next SG for me if we accept ourselves being backstabbers. Apart from that, yeah, I'm certainly in for another SG, no doubt about it.

I hope we can form some ruleset at the end of this SG, before a new one gets started. Technically the start of a new SG would be a better moment, but it's awkward beginning an SG with a difficult discussion, as then you want to get people on board for your SG, and you want to roll some starts and get going. I swear that we'll annoy ourselves when we try to do the discussion then.
Better earlier, and that at the start of an SG we only need to refer to the rules we've spoken about. So at the end of this SG I hope to get to this. Gods & Kings will likely change things, and we would need to adjust the rules again, but I think it'll still be easier if we have something worked out before then.

I don't mind selling before the DOW but I would support a ban on the practice if we could decide by vote in exceptional circumstances. 30 turns is a long time in an SG and who knows what might be on the cards in a couple of sets.

In G&K isn't there a change to how resigning deals works? Can't really remember.

I had a look at the save. I'm a bit surprised by all the factories, my guess is we're so close to the finish that we won't earn the invested hammers back, but I'm not complaining (and I haven't exactly done the maths either ).
Talking about maths, if I could have done something to make that RA a bit more effective, it would have been good if someone had given a shout. I roughly know how RA's work, but I never really count the beans, I'm a bit lazy in that respect.

NotSure said:

KEEP ANNEXING. Elephantine appears to be the next best option. Those two English cities and the city south of Delhi also look about ready. Anyway, when the courthouses are done we should be back in the mid to high teens with happiness, so there’s no need to panic.

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Some other ways to increase happiness:
* Temples and Monuments in our annexed cities, since we're up Organized Religion (I see NotSure made a good start with monuments in our annexed cities already);
* Assign more specialists, since we're up Democracy;
* Circuses in towns that can have them - some are being built right now;
* Possibly go for Aristocracy (Tradition) as our next SP, this would be my suggestion; it's an extra happy face for 10 citizens in a city. We have 7 cities above 10, 2 to join soon.

We're not too bad for happy, I think, everything considering.

NotSure said:

My plan was to leave Washington with San Francisco and push through to the Russian border while tearing down Japan at the same time.

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Looks like an effective way to go about it. I see you have already split our army; a northern part with a GG, that can swim over to Osaka, covered by some frigates, and a southern part, also with a GG, to swarm that part of the map.

grandad1982 said:

I don't mind selling before the DOW but I would support a ban on the practice if we could decide by vote in exceptional circumstances. 30 turns is a long time in an SG and who knows what might be on the cards in a couple of sets.

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I suggested in some previous post 10 turns as a minumum must respect period for sticking to trade deals, I think 30 turns is unworkable, yes, but we definitely need to work out something.

In G&K isn't there a change to how resigning deals works? Can't really remember.

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Yes, you will be given the chance to extend them for another period while they're still active.

The factories are pretty much a habit. I always build them as soon as they're available. You're right that we could be pretty close to finishing this one and factories certainly aren't what they used to be. I considered the possibility that the happiness struggle could delay a win by a couple dozen turns, making it necessary/possible to build more buildings and wonders (we have a CS that wants Sistine Chapel, which is very cheap in one of our cities with a factory) and use aircraft. We could easily work around that by selling cities if we just wanted to get it over. I wouldn't normally play that way unless I was playing on Deity and time was an issue.

As far as the house rules are concerned, I'm not opposed to them if they don't run contrary to the chosen victory condition. I think a Celt culture game with limited conquest (somewhat like the Aztec culture game) would be fun. We could certainly try a strict no back-stabbing approach in that kind of game. In this game, I don't see us declaring on Cathy until we're at least halfway through the trades I made. I thought this was consistent with what we'd been doing, which is why I was a little confused.

So I can get us to +6 with just assigning a few specs. I'll also build any buildings that I can.

On the tech front I'll save the GSci for Railroad and Combustion.

War needs no more discussion really.

I'll play tomorrow.

Good turns, grandad....or at least I hope so?

One day late and its like you my mother. Sort of

Don't have time to report now but I will on friday.

Heres the save and a quick summing up.

We are done with the USA and have Japans capital. I got a bit sloppy in Japans land and we lost a couple of infantry and some cav but I've built replacements. is all good.

We have 2 GSci and Bio is in next turn so we can bulb our way to tanks next turn too! Just got to hook up some oil.

Started to set up for Russia but its still a bit of a mess and might need a couple of turns jigging units to get the set up right.

Been building more navy in case we want to just snipe the Otteramns capital from the sea.

This is over in 2 sets IMO so I don't expect another turn. On that note GG everyone!

The Save

Haha, I'm your Great Grand dad, so your not fooling me.

Had a quick look at the save and a great touch grandad, we're getting Statue of Liberty in 3 turns! Love that one!

Over all it looks nice, tried the Optional trick with Sully, he would give 90g and 5 iron for us to attack Russia. It almost breaks my heart, but in this game Cathy loves us whatever we do. In 90% of my own games, she loves me then backstabs me, then loves me again.

So, in a couple of turns we can take her on, just need arties a bit closer. I suggest northern route:
Yakutsk, Vladivostok, Moscow and St.Petes. Ignore the rest and just sit back with a couple of units. If we can make a fast peace, we might get Ankara and we're looking at a sitting duck.

Or else, we have to take Ankara too, no big dramas, we'll be on Sully's doorstep.

We have over 6k in the bank, why?

Anyways, well played grandad!

HEY, we can make peace with Japan for 193g and 36gpt, I would take it!

I'm afraid I don't have time to write a full report as I have to get ready to go away for the weekend. I'll give a full a summery as I can though.

PFT

I go through our cities assigning specs and this brings us to 6

I move our frigates towards Japan. Gun boat diplomacy baby.

1

IBT Cathy build Sistine Chapel.

Our road to Sydney finishes and we get the influence.

London, Factory > Temple

2

Some deals with Oda end and I don't renew.

I sell silk and 2 horses to Sully for 8gpt and 35g. Sell gems to Liz for 3gpt and 13g.

SP is in and i select Aristocracy. This is worth 7. For some reason I haven't paid attention to this means we're now +33 !

Thebes, Circus > Library

I decide to DoW Japan (No one seems to want to pay us for this) and start by sinking 2 caravels so I can start to embark units.

3

IBT Cathy warns us about our aggression. Hold tight your'll get yours soon.

We capture Atlanta and puppet it. It has lots of buildings left. Nice.

Washington, Market > Libary
Muang, Factory > Cav
Hastings, Factory > Cav
London, Factory > Frigate
Delhi, Factory > Public School

4

IBT and Japanese Caravel comes out of the fog and kills an embarked cav.

Thebes, Lib > Wat
Sukho, Factory > SoL. Only 9 turns and should net us plenty of hammers.

5

Archaeology is in and we start bio for the oil.

Washington, Lib > Monumnet

6

We capture Philadelphia and puppet it. We also capture Kyoto and puppet it.

Washington, Monument > Circus
Muang, Cav > Inf
Loondon, Frigate > Frigate

7

USA ask us for peace and I say no. we're nearly done with them anyway.

IBT Japan retook Kyoto and killed and Inf in the process. They were basically a carpet of doom when we started the war but we should be ok to retake.... and we are. We retake Kyoto. We also capture Chicargo and puppet it.

Washington, Circus > Wat
Hastings, Cav > Cav

We peace out the USA leaving them with one city (forget the name off hand).

A GG was born this turn so I burn him to extend our GA.

9

Some deals with Sully end and I don't renew.

Memphis, Bank > Monument
Delhi, Public School > Garden
Thebes, Wat > Temple

O gift Singapore so they are our allie and not Russias any more. Should have done this before DoW on Japan. Doh!

9

IBT Oda asks for Peace but I say no. I want Osaka so we can send troops roundd to the north if we have to.

A GSci is born in Muang and he heads over to Sukho to chill with our other GSci.

Si Sat, Factory > Mint

10

Washington, Wat > Temple
London, Frigate > Theatre
Memphis, Monument > Temple


Sorry for the basic report and lack of pictures. Also I played a bit sloppy.

I built some extra frigates in case we want to snipe Sullys capital from the sea. It might still be quicker to just roll through Russia.

I would take the 2 citeis in front of our troops and then the oone north of Moscow as well. That will make a good enough channel to get troops throught to Sullys lands.

Don't forget to bulb Railroad and Combustion next turn and get that oil hooked up ASAP! Would be nice to use some tanks for the final push...

@ gozpel We have loads of gold to upgrade cav to tanks.

Enjoy the war guys!

Ah I think it's me next, I'll check save and report back shortly. I'll be thinking of setting up somebody for a coup de grace.

Brichals said:

Ah I think it's me next, I'll check save and report back shortly. I'll be thinking of setting up somebody for a coup de grace.

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That would be me, the non-warmongering guy.

If you set me up, I'll do my best to leave the last turn for our leader Optional!

Just follow grandad's ideas and we're done with this game, best luck!

Btw, where is Optional?

You didn't send him to the Grand Lakes did you, grandad?

He's here.
By the way, if you ask somebody money to go to war, it locks you into this war for 10 turns. This may slow things down.
Like at the moment, with the Japanese capital in our hands, I would sign peace with Japan and simply move on with the next player.
Edit: Oh, please end this game if you can. When I had played I thought it would be my last set in this game. We're basically stretching it a bit now, by bothering about every town on the map, building factories and not moving straight on.

I'm gonna just go ahead and play, I think there are no burning issues so I think we can put this to bed and give ourselves a pat on the back!

Optional said:

He's here.
By the way, if you ask somebody money to go to war, it locks you into this war for 10 turns. This may slow things down.
Like at the moment, with the Japanese capital in our hands, I would sign peace with Japan and simply move on with the next player.
Edit: Oh, please end this game if you can. When I had played I thought it would be my last set in this game. We're basically stretching it a bit now, by bothering about every town on the map, building factories and not moving straight on.

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I took at least five cities in a ten turn set and burned half of them down. I can't imagine how that stretched the game out and I can't see how building a few factories is stretching the game out either. Seems like we've been moving about as straight on as possible to me. Brichals and Gozpel could possibly finish it, but I wouldn't be surprised to see you get another set. A sub-250 domination win at this level is pretty good.

Anyway, considering how unlikely it is I'll play another set, I'll say GG to everyone. I enjoyed it and would be interested in playing another after the XP comes out.