Elite Forces

S

seamus2010

Chieftain
Joined
Jun 23, 2013
Messages
66
Is anyone else having trouble with this Autocracy tenet? I took it, it's supposed to make wounded military units deal 25% more damage. However, I see absolutely no effect of this. No promotion, no indicator (like "15% rough terrain attack bonus") when I mouse over an enemy unit, and lastly, my units definitely aren't doing more damage when they're slightly damaged.

I took a look at the xml, and found this.

Code: 
		<Row>
			<Type>POLICY_ELITE_FORCES</Type>
			<Description>TXT_KEY_POLICY_ELITE_FORCES</Description>
			<Civilopedia>TXT_KEY_POLICY_ELITE_FORCES_TEXT</Civilopedia>
			<Help>TXT_KEY_POLICY_ELITE_FORCES_HELP</Help>
			<PolicyBranchType>POLICY_BRANCH_AUTOCRACY</PolicyBranchType>
			<CultureCost>10</CultureCost>
			<Level>1</Level>
			<PortraitIndex>10</PortraitIndex>
			<IconAtlas>POLICY_ATLAS_EXP2</IconAtlas>
			<IconAtlasAchieved>POLICY_A_ATLAS_EXP2</IconAtlasAchieved>
			[COLOR="DarkRed"][B]<WoundedUnitDamageMod>-25</WoundedUnitDamageMod>[/COLOR][/B]
		</Row>

Is this right? -25?
 
It doesn't actually add damage and a wounded unit will never do more than it would at 100% health. What it does is reduce the negative attack bonus units have when they are wounded so it's like they have the strength of a unit who has higher health. For example, say a unit at 100% health does 30 damage, and the same unit at 25% health only does 20 damage, the Elite Forces tenet makes it so that damaged unit will do something more like 25 damage instead.
 
Nicasen said:
It doesn't actually add damage and a wounded unit will never do more than it would at 100% health. What it does is reduce the negative attack bonus units have when they are wounded so it's like they have the strength of a unit who has higher health. For example, say a unit at 100% health does 30 damage, and the same unit at 25% health only does 20 damage, the Elite Forces tenet makes it so that damaged unit will do something more like 25 damage instead.
Click to expand...

What if my Frigate is at 95% health, it should do more damage than a full health frigate, no? Say full health frigate does 30 damage, 95% health frigate normally would do 28 damage. With Elite Forces, it should do around 28*1.25=35 damage, higher than the full health one. I tested this, and it doesn't. No indicator for bonus damage in the combat prediction window either. :S
 
No, unfortunately it will never make your units do more damage than they would at full health. It's not so much a damage bonus so much as removing a damage penalty from wounded units (think of it like a weaker version of Japan's UA).
 
Elite forces tenet/social policy is even easily countered by the charge promotion. 33% bonus strength against wounded players. I think that also stacks with kossacks if I am not mistaken, because their bonus damage against wounded players is shown as a yellow buff arrow rather than a "sword with '+' " icon promotion. I don't know if BNW has corrected this though.
 
seamus2010 said:
What if my Frigate is at 95% health, it should do more damage than a full health frigate, no? Say full health frigate does 30 damage, 95% health frigate normally would do 28 damage. With Elite Forces, it should do around 28*1.25=35 damage, higher than the full health one. I tested this, and it doesn't. No indicator for bonus damage in the combat prediction window either. :S
Click to expand...

Your math is off. Full health frigate does 30 damage, wounded one does 28. With tenet it will do 28.5 (25% of the difference). It decreases the reduction the wounded unit receives.
 
Grimlin said:
Your math is off. Full health frigate does 30 damage, wounded one does 28. With tenet it will do 28.5 (25% of the difference). It decreases the reduction the wounded unit receives.
Click to expand...

But the description says that wounded units deal 25% more damage, not "wounded units receive 25% less damage penalty"... :S If that's the case, then this tenet is not that good...
 
sendos said:
Elite forces tenet/social policy is even easily countered by the charge promotion. 33% bonus strength against wounded players. I think that also stacks with kossacks if I am not mistaken, because their bonus damage against wounded players is shown as a yellow buff arrow rather than a "sword with '+' " icon promotion. I don't know if BNW has corrected this though.
Click to expand...

Nope they still stack, it's not a bug though. It's kind of like how the great lighthouse stacks with English Unique Ability
 
I love quoting myself. :D

Babri said:
Gabriel Pyyrhic said:
I cant say for sure how BNW implements but prior to G+K wounded reduced the CS of units by up to 50% and was a sliding scale, so your assertion is definitely not true prior to G+K. That said I am not sure how the mechanics work (exactly) since then so you may be right. Worth checking though if you are interested.

The War Academy had a good combat paper prior to G+K, they may well have an updated one. IDK.
Click to expand...
Check this link. It is about vanilla when we used to have 10HP units & wounded units could have up to 50% penalty (which is now 33% max with G&K onwards).

From the guide:-

MadDjinn said:

Populism


Wounded Military Units inflict 25% more damage than normal.

Tired of the buzzing sound you hear when enemy fighters give paper cuts to all of your units? Still clearing your head after that Atomic Bomb landed next to you? Populism will help make the enemy pay for not killing you outright. With the added bonus you overcome some of the reduction in damage for being wounded, but you will never go above what a full health unit can give for damage.

Instead of a 10% reduction in damage given, per 2 hit points lost, Populism changes it to:
  • 10-7 HP: 0% reduction
  • 6-3 HP: 10% reduction
  • 2-1 HP: 20% reduction

This also means that the popular myth of 125% damage giving Japanese units is not true. Japan is the only civilization that should avoid Populism (unless trying to finish Autocracy) as it will never benefit them.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Instead of "Elite Forces" it should be called "Forces on Meth & PCP". They dont care that they are hurt, but they arent really more effective. It really isnt a very valuable tenet.
 
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