a possible addition (scholars) to CIV4 games to CIV4 desginers

dear all (esp to CIV4 games designers),

Im a newcomer and a great fans of civ games. I suggest that desginers can add "scholars" this units. As we all know from history, some civilizations were strengthened from modelling after other superior cultures. For example, Japan sent a series of scholars to China for learning her advanced techniques in ancient time.

In the game, "Scholars" can access to the capital of a friendly nation (with open border clause agreed) and learn the technologies that your nation has yet to complete or investigate.

On the other hand (not the matter of "scholars"), I found that the cities of Indian civilization possessed East Asian architectural style which should be largely inappropriate.

I hope the game desginer will take the above into account when designing a new version of civ game=) Thanks

I think that concept is represented already by the use of great people and specialists.

For the mechanism of 'learning' techs from other Civs, the use of spies in BtS allows the stealing of technologies assuming you have sufficient espionage points available.

I'd rather have Diplomats and convert the diplomacy mechanic into yet another facet of your economy. So you may invest in good relations with civilizations of your choosing.

Essentially, rip off espionage, but under a system that has entirely different goals. Just a bit similar in general function.

Great Diplomats could be used for various things, one of which to establish embassies in enemy capitols. Making it quite unique in the fact that I'd believe it'd be the first building in the history of Civ that you could build in enemy territory. Embassies could provide an exceptional Diplo point increase back home toward the nation which you built it in. In addition to opening up new, exclusive diplomatic options that otherwise would be unavailable between you and the respective civ. Even more so if both civs have embassies in each others nations.

Such advantages would not be without risk as the more hostile a nation is to you, there becomes a chance where your embassy could be boycott for X turns. Or even have the potential to be destroyed altogether should you go to war with the respective civ.

I'd like this idea because personally, the more things that draw from your economy, the better, imo. It's far too easy to balance a budget in this game and in my experience, diplomacy is the easiest thing to manipulate. Especially due to religions. Making it akin to espionage would make it more difficult to be on good, or even neutral terms, with every civ. While adding an additional level of depth to both diplomacy itself, and the economy.

They should also take a page from the CTP series and do something similar to the Public Works system. They could still keep workers if they wanted to, but they could allow for tile improvements to cost a resource, also tied to your economy. Hell, even making tile improvements cost gold to build would be an economical step up, imo. Perhaps allow Great Engineers to convert into an advanced worker unit (Engineers...) that may build improvements at a reduced, or no, cost.

General point; I've always sought a greater economical depth to Civ.

@ King Jason - The diplomat idea is intriguing. I'm not totally sure how it would work from your explaination, but I'd be open to that kind of addition.

Always liked the idea of CTP style developments and cost, resource requirements etc. in addition to the simple 'worker' mechanic. Great idea for use of Engineers GP too.

1) In what ways can great people and specialists learn from other cultures?
(as far as i know, arent they investigating techs in your own country?)

2) The use of spies is different from the use of scholars (stealing sth VS
learning sth)

3) King Jason might not talk abt my suggestion here?

Anyway, really thanks for your active participation in discussing my silly suggestion=p

The future that civilizations learn from each other is actually semi-present in the game. If you are first to research a technology, you payed full cost to it. If your opponents research it, they will get a bonus. The more people who know the tech the bigger bonus for the backward techer. (I don't remember the number but its definately real)

This does however have no connection with your current diplomatic standing. Maybe an enhanced diplomacy system could be the solution, as you say.

1) In what ways can great people and specialists learn from other cultures?
(as far as i know, arent they investigating techs in your own country?)

Click to expand...

Who knows what methods they use? If it makes you happy, you can imagine that some of these scientists are studying more advanced cultures.

Obviously a "scholar" is conceptually identical to a Great Scientist, or simply a scientist. When you build libraries and universities, what do you get?

The unit you propose is more like a spy or diplomat. In previous incarnations of Civ these units could steal technology just as you suggest. Obviously they decided to modify this ability in Civ 4 for reasons of game balance, incorporating it into the espionage function.

2) The use of spies is different from the use of scholars (stealing sth VS
learning sth)

Click to expand...

If you "learn" something without giving anything in return, then you are to all intents and purposes stealing it. May be not in historical terms, but in game terms that is precisely what you are doing.

Remember Civ 4 is a game, not a historical simulation. If you are going to use arguments from history to justify new units, then you could argue for all sorts of additions. The real question is whether these new additions would improve the game, not whether they mimic something that happened in history.

well..I see your point (depending whether it improves the game)
after all, it is merely a suggestion

reli welcome you guys giving such thoughtful ideas on my suggestion

yokachinu said:

1) In what ways can great people and specialists learn from other cultures?
(as far as i know, arent they investigating techs in your own country?)

Click to expand...

Again, it's a representation of allocating population toward research. It doesn't assume that this part of your population is static within your city - not traveling abroad and coming back home.

In the same manner that religions spread and you have invisible trade routes, you could imagine that technology spreads and influences your scholars. I don't think an additional unit is needed to represent this.

yokachinu said:

2) The use of spies is different from the use of scholars (stealing sth VS
learning sth)

Click to expand...

Agreed, though I think nbcman was referring more to duplicating a similar game mechanic.

yokachinu said:

Anyway, really thanks for your active participation in discussing my silly suggestion=p

Click to expand...

There are no silly suggestions. I can't tell you how many mod ideas I've gotten from silly suggestions on these forums.