Wow, Indonesia...

played conts, with indonesia.. surprisingly i had my own small group of islands off the main continent. (i was playing on large conts with 14 civs)

As others have said, Indonesia is clearly meant for archipelago settling. Saying they're useless anywhere else is like saying Denmark and Polynesia are useless on land maps.

As for the promotions on Kris warriors, I've only seen two so far: Ambition - 50% attack bonus, -20% defense, and Recruitment - squad heals to full when you kill an enemy. Nice little promotions, especially considering they carry over when you upgrade them to longswordsmen, musketmen, etc.

Having said that, I don't think I'll be playing Indonesia much. But if someone were partial to island hopping + religion focus playstyle, they seem perfectly viable.

One question though, has anyone tested the guaranteed 2 new luxury resources aspect of Indonesia's trait? I mean what happens if you settle on a new continent in an area with no luxuries? Do two just appear on adjacent tiles?

Never mind, just read another post and got my answer.

One question though, has anyone tested the guaranteed 2 new luxury resources aspect of Indonesia's trait? I mean what happens if you settle on a new continent in an area with no luxuries? Do two just appear on adjacent tiles?

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It's three, and they appear on the tile you build your city, like with Porcelain or Jewelry for CS. Not sure if the city tile's yield is affected though.

EDIT: Oh, didn't see you already had it answered. Does anyone else know if nutmeg/cloves/pepper impact the yield of the city tiles? Since luxuries are much more vital for gold yield now.

I might of missed someone saying this, but a continent is considered any landmass not attached to the continent you are on. Indonesia settled on a 1 tile island three tiles from our continent and he got Nutmeg to trade afterwards.

Scauthra said:

I might of missed someone saying this, but a continent is considered any landmass not attached to the continent you are on. Indonesia settled on a 1 tile island three tiles from our continent and he got Nutmeg to trade afterwards.

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I stand by my case that they are the new weakest civ in the game over-all

Well I guess this raises a question. When we take the power of a civ into consideration, are we envisioning its potential in an ideal environment(i.e. Indonesia on archipelago),or are we valuing its potential in a random civ environment, all things being equal?

MantaRevan said:

Well I guess this raises a question. When we take the power of a civ into consideration, are we envisioning its potential in an ideal environment(i.e. Indonesia on archipelago),or are we valuing its potential in a random civ environment, all things being equal?

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That is no different than saying that a civ should only be good for one victory condition, I would think. I believe the top-tier civs (like Arabia) can win effectively multiple ways on multiple maps but most of the other civs (excepting India) can win in the hands of competent players on any map.

Next time I am gonna make a thread how Zulu are pathetic with advance start (renaissance onwards) & how much Siam UA's suck with no City States setting.

Seriously you need to understand that every civ cannot really work on every map as mentioned by other posters. If you want one map where almost every civ will work, then try playing Continent plus because it also have small Islands.

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As I've noticed, if you plant your cities atop another resource, the original resource disappears. I've tried with this silver, for example, and I only came up with nutmeg in the happiness tooltip. I can't say this is my favorite civilization. Anyone enjoy playing Poland?

Playing Indonesia right now, continents plus. they rock.

Blueboots said:

As I've noticed, if you plant your cities atop another resource, the original resource disappears. I've tried with this silver, for example, and I only came up with nutmeg in the happiness tooltip. I can't say this is my favorite civilization. Anyone enjoy playing Poland?

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That is annoying enough to qualify as a bug
(Although to 2x check.. Did you have mining?)

in the now said:

I stand by my case that they are the new weakest civ in the game over-all

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Not true at all. The Kris Swordsman is a better UU than many, and there's no reason you have to settle all three extra continents to make use of the UA.

The full UA basically reads "Indonesia gets 12 free happiness ... oh, and three free resources no one else has that it can trade for 240 gpt each without losing any of that happiness". Obviously it needs some restriction, since otherwise it would be ludicrous. People are just looking at the restriction and wholly ignoring what you get when you overcome it. Settling even one city off the main continent gives you respectable value from the UA; it's not a binary UA where you have to have exactly four islands or it's worthless. Even with two it's arguably strictly superior to the Dutch UA, for example.

Though it has a freshwater restriction, when available the candi has a lot of potential - lots of surplus faith in an expansion that has extra things to spend faith on, and accelerated GP production is more valuable than it used to be. Even on a duel map (and so only two religions), with Piety and only two candis I was able to buy a university/missionary/inquisitor/mosque every four turns or so, or accumulate for a Great Scientist push.

And of these three, only the UA is contingent on the type of map you play, and only to a limited degree.

KrikkitTwo said:

That is annoying enough to qualify as a bug
(Although to 2x check.. Did you have mining?)

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I did indeed, yes.

played Indonesia tonight. definitely not my favorite civ. Its too much effort to set upo in order to take advantage of the benefits. will move on to Shoshone tomorrow and maybe come back to indo one day when im bored.

I think the first of the 3 resources should be at your capital, but only take effect after researching calender. Considering tech related bonuses have been done before (Babylon, Maya) this shouldn't be a big deal and it means no matter what they get to use their UA at least once.

...We have 43 now?
Wow...that's...a lot...

My thoughts on Indonesia:

#1 - The UA isn't India bad, but it's certainly in the bottom half of UA's. By the time I'm looking to settle other continents, I usually have happiness under control, and what's worse is that BNW changed lump-sum trades, so settling another continent as Indonesia just to trade the free luxes isn't even that great a compromise.

#2 - Iron-based unit issues aside, the Indonesian UU is a dice-roll, yes, but if it keeps its promotions as it upgrades, then having just five or six of the UU with the all-good promotions survive to be upgraded means a nice elite strike force to open up the next war with.

#3 - The Candi is down there with Kreposts and Mughal Forts. It doesn't give raw faith directly, and it actually needs competing faiths in the city to draw any unique benefit whatsoever. And it has to be built on rivers or lakes. Meaning that it may not be possible to build it consistently (no rivers or lakes = no Candi), and even when built it might not get a second religion into the city for quite some time.

As someone else already posted, it certainly isn't the worst civ in the entire game, but it may very well be the worst civ added by BNW.

ahawk said:

My thoughts on Indonesia:

#1 - The UA isn't India bad, but it's certainly in the bottom half of UA's. By the time I'm looking to settle other continents, I usually have happiness under control, and what's worse is that BNW changed lump-sum trades, so settling another continent as Indonesia just to trade the free luxes isn't even that great a compromise.

#2 - Iron-based unit issues aside, the Indonesian UU is a dice-roll, yes, but if it keeps its promotions as it upgrades, then having just five or six of the UU with the all-good promotions survive to be upgraded means a nice elite strike force to open up the next war with.

#3 - The Candi is down there with Kreposts and Mughal Forts. It doesn't give raw faith directly, and it actually needs competing faiths in the city to draw any unique benefit whatsoever. And it has to be built on rivers or lakes. Meaning that it may not be possible to build it consistently (no rivers or lakes = no Candi), and even when built it might not get a second religion into the city for quite some time.

As someone else already posted, it certainly isn't the worst civ in the entire game, but it may very well be the worst civ added by BNW.

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#1) Keep in mind that unique luxuries mean more lucrative trade routes. Also you can just gift it for a relations boost with your neighbour. That would make you close enough to sign DoFs & later on sell that luxury for lump sum gold.

#3) Why don't you try making trade routes with holy cities of other civilizations (especially Arabia). I am sure Candi is fairly powerful when properly used.

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Having not yet played it, it seems as though Indonesia is designed for Archipelago/Small Continents maps, while being somewhat useful on the other maps because of the Candi and the Kris Swordsman. Looks deadly situationally.

Don't get why people are so upset about it not being particularly good on the particular map style they like to play... Archipelago is one of my favourite map-types so they may end up my favourite BNW civ. But that doesn't mean I'm going to say that a land-civ is bad simply because it doesn't fit into my favourite map type.